updated fuel pump???

[waybad]

Will this have to be a vented tank or a pressurised tank? TC

`The monza tank has the gas cap with the check valve and a charcoal canister. My charcoal canister will get hooked to an LS1 purge valve ( same valve is used on other engines) purge function will be controlled be Ls1 PCM. Factory 70's technology used a ported vacuum source to prevent purge affecting idle and a temp controlled vacuum switch in the waterneck to prevent purging when engine is cold. The LS1 electronics uses info from the temp sender and throttle position sender to control the purge function.
I don't want a vented system stinking up my garage (when I get one).

Your vega most likely is a vented through the cap. I would think you could ad a gas cap with the check valve and a charcoal canister if you wanted without too much trouble.

Thanks,, any diagrams of what you described?

[monzaaddict]

I bent up a first attempt at a new float arm.

IMG_0334 (Small).JPG

I tried unbending the loop at the float end of the Ls1 sender arm but i could hear the foam float cracking so I decided to cut the end of the wire off instead. I crazy glued the hairline crack that had formed (hope that holds up). I think I will secure the float to the new arm with a internal push on retainer. I am not sure where I am going to find one for 3/32" wire.

[waybad]

genius

[monzaaddict]

The first arm in its full position reached amost 10" That is going to be touching the top of the gas tank when full. Also If I turn the canister so that the fuel line fittings are positioned toward the front of the car ( they are postioned 23 degrees off to the drivers side on the Camaro) I think the rear of the arm will contact the curve in the Monza tank. The arm is also 4.5" longer than the stock arm and I am not sure how the added weight would affect the float.

IMG_0334 (Small).JPG

IMG_0337 (Small).JPG

So, I made a second arm. This one crosses over higher up on the canister. In the full position it reaches about 9.5 inches and should clear the curve in the rear of the Monza tank. The last bend before the float is angled forward and when twisted allows me to change the arm lenght at the full position This arm is only about 2" longer than the stock arm.

IMG_0339 (Small).JPG

IMG_0338 (Small).JPG

I will probably try making another arm that crosses over higher on the canister giving more clearance in the back and closer to the stock length.

I used a push on retainer available from http://www.auveco.com part #8862 for 3/32 wire. 1800 354 9816 for a dealer or try http://www.clipsandfasteners.com/3_32_S ... /a8862.htm

[monzaaddict]

I made another sender arm ( i think this will be the final design). This one crosses over much higher on the canister. In the full position the float reaches a height of 9 3/8" There is much more clearance to the rear with the canister inlet/outlet positioned to the front of the car. The length of the arm is the same as the original arm so there will be no extra weight acting on the float.

If anyone wants to test one out, pm an address and I will send it out.

IMG_0341 (Small).JPG

[waybad]

looks very nice!!
can someone tell me why you don't need baffles with this pump set up?

[hoffbug]

Very cool thread.. Can someone tell me what you have to have in the way of a pump to run E-85?
E-85 is conductive so I know you cannot have a submerged pump .. I guess I dont know enough about "new" stuff to know how they work it out.

[80 MONZTA]

looks very nice!!
can someone tell me why you don't need baffles with this pump set up?

Overflow from the pump goes into the can, filling it all the time as I understand it.

[monzaaddict]

looks very nice!!
can someone tell me why you don't need baffles with this pump set up?

The 1999 & up LS1 F-body cars have a pump that is inside a plastic fill-bucket.

RX-F99-FPM.jpg

The fill-bucket is equipped with two inlets on the bottom. The equalization checkvalve is used to fill the bucket when the level of fuel in the tank is greater than in the bucket. The equalization checkvalve does not allow fuel to exit the bucket.

RX-F99-FPM_bottom_view.jpg

The factory pump supplies pressurized fuel via a small tube which feeds a calibrated jet inside the venturi system.

RX-F99-FPM_top_view.jpg

TThe venturi system's inlet is a combination checkvalve and powered suction system. This jet of fuel shoots across the base of the checkvalve inlet thereby creating a suction effect which draws more fuel from the bottom of the tank through the filter sock.

RX-F99-FPM-Fuel_pump-view.jpg

This venturi system keeps the bucket full all the time even when the fuel tank is almost empty. A full bucket keeps the pump immersed in fuel regardless of the tank level so that when the tank is low on gas and you are doing some hard cornering or acceleration the pump does not run dry and start aerating (air bubbles) the fuel. This happens as the fuel sloshes from side to side in the tank leaving the center low on fuel. This can cause detonation and possible engine damage.
The 99+ F-LS1 cars with plastic tanks have no baffling in them so the bucket is very important. The bucket also allows the car to operate with lower fuel levels in the tank due to its scavenging effect. The fill-bucket improves motor crank-to-run time as the priming time is reduced under most conditions.

The return line feeds the pressure regulator on the fuel module which diverts fuel back into the bucket so that the unused fuel also helps keep it full at all times.

Keeping the pump constantly immersed in gas within the bucket can extend the pump's life by not allowing it to be exposed to open air. Open air within the tank contains moisture and in time will cause the pump to rust / seize up especially if left to sit for long periods of time without the tank topped-up (i.e. winter storage).



The corrugated fuel pump tube replaces the fuel pulse damper that was found on older cars. Pressure spikes from the pump are controlled by the tube briefly stretching to increase volume in the fuel line thereby reducing the pressure. (Also makes pump quieter).

[greg72]

Holy crap!

That STOCK fuel pump set up is more sophisticated than the entire aftermarket fuel system in my Mirage!

Seriously though, nice work on the retro-fit into a tank for the Monza.

[waybad]

Thank you!! I was told that it didn't need a baffle but you really explained it well
TC

[80 MONZTA]

OK, been a while since this has been updated. I tried to weld the Grand Prix ring onto my Monza tank, well, I did weld it on.
But even by only welding a small bit at a time, the top of the tank warped so badly that I had to cut it out again. I was able to cut it so I could still use the ring and my tank with a piece of 14 gage steel between them. This time I cut the remainder of the dome on the Monza tank off. I then welded the ring to the 14 ga steel, again it warped, but was easy to bend it back in shape.

Fuelpump and Tank S.jpg

I put off welding the ring assembly to the tank long enough to realize that the rib on the bottom of the tank was just too darn high. Plus I had welded a piece of 14 ga steel on the rib so all three pads of the pump could rest on it, therfore raising it higher still. So by practice hammering on the cut up GP tank, found out that I would not be able to hammer the rib flat. So I cut it out, made a patch pannel and soldered it in place. I am planning on just soldering the ring to the tank too, it overlaps enough to have plenty of strength I hope.

Fuelpump and Tank Q.jpg

Fuelpump and Tank R.jpg

I will try to get a better underneath pic, it looks better in person.
I think for the top I will get a friend to use a torch sparingly while I use the iron. Such a large area to heat up and thin steel so it cools off quickly. Yes, it is a large iron, the tip is 1" thick, best garage sale item I bought for only $2 in a long time!

[80 MONZTA]

About 2 weeks ago I soldered in the upper ring and painted inside and out of tank with Masterseries Silver that was discused in this thread. I preped the tank by washing it out a couple times using Marine Clean. Then using a metal prep called PHIX, first time I have ever used anything to etch metal before painting and I will be using it before painting metal from now on. On the first coat of paint, I had 1 area the size of a quarter that puddled in the bottom. It was soft and easily scraped out the next day, but right at the edge of the puddle it stopped coming off and was very much stuck to the metal of the tank like it should be. I then put a second coat on. I used disposable gloves, but my arm got quite a bit on it, Goop was able to remove a lot of it, but some took almost 2 weeks to wear off.
In the first pic, you can see how I made the patch pannel for the pump to rest on the bottom.

Fuelpump and Tank T.jpg

I gave up trying to remove all the undercoating or whatever was on top of the tank where it mounts to body of car, some of it was like a plastic and did not want to come off.

Fuelpump and Tank U.jpg

Then I bent a new float arm, first try was a bust. So I found some solid copper wire and made a pattern from it (sooo easy to bend). I made it a little high at empty just to give a little insurance if running low. But I will never let it get below 1/4 tank anyway, I hope.

Fuelpump and Tank W.jpg

Fuelpump and Tank X.jpg

After the silver dried for a week I spray painted it with satin black Krylon, I didn't mask around the fill or pump openings, just avoided gettting any inside them. The bottom had some large dents bofore I started working on it, I straightened them out the best I could but it is not show quality. Kind of wish I had looked for a better tank to begin with, but it should work out ok. It's been so long since tank has been on my car, are they even visable from behind without getting on the ground to see them?

Fuelpump and Tank V.jpg

[80 MONZTA]

To retain the float I wanted the simplicity and reliability like it was stock, so I used a needle nose pliers pinched on the end with a vise and bent it with no stress at all on the float. I bent it first then masked it up (to prevent any steel dust from getting into it) and used a dremmel cut off disk to cut it off.

Fuelpump and Tank Z.jpg

It has a little bit of extra length to it, but should work fine. Also, the bends on each side are just a little less then 90 degrees, so it should always spin easily.

Fuelpump and Tank Y.jpg

[monzaaddict]

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-lsx ... h-gen.html

herko gfc31 should be a good part number for the 0-90 ohm sender

https://www.racetronix.biz/p/connector- ... 50/rcs-028