Where's My Effin' Fuel Pump?

[starfire]

Hey, you know the car, 1978 Starfire Firenza V-8. Cannot find any mention of location of fuel pump in the CSM or the Assembly Manual. I know it's somewhere sternward of the firewall, I'm assuming it's in the tank. Is my assumption a good one? Do I need to drop the tank to replace it? Thanks!

[Biscayne John]

Yes you do! To make the electric disconect easier you can unplug the harness in the jack storage area and push the wires down and diconect the ground wire in the same location.
GOOD LUCK

[Monza Harry]

Hey Alan you didn't mention or look at mine when you were over, or I could have shown you that the wire on my car will let the tank reach the ground before I had to unplug it. My car was on 3 Ton stands full extension on the axle, about 15" or so if I had to guess, and the wire was about 2"+/- from the ground. The hoses are easy right in front of the tank so you can undo them before you even start. Where are you getting your pump from? Not a regular item anymore, most places have only the "Airtek" pump and my two were crap! I managed to get a close out "Delphi" from "Rock Auto" worth a shot. I have found the oil pressure switch on eBay also worth a shot (as it to has gone "Obsolete" and I am awaiting delivery right now). I can't seem to find a listing for a '82/'86(?) carbureted F-Body as I believe it should have the newest version of our pumps (I haven't looked very hard yet, but I am concerned with the "Alcohol" content in the fuel that wasn't there in '78 Harry

[starfire]

I didn't think about the fuel pump then. I have been having trouble with cold start. I have to pump the pedal like 18 times before it will start if it has sat for more than a day. Doesn't seem like it should have that problem, and I was talking with a friend of mine who really knows his stuff on carbs and he suggested the fuel pump might be going bad and it is letting fuel leak back (bad check valve) when the car sits. At that point he didn't know it was an electric pump in the tank. I wasn't positive either, but I figured it had to be as the fuel line comes from under the firewall straight to the carb. I don't know if the electric ones have a check valve to go bad on them, but I got to thinking that the pump is of unknown vintage (probably the original one) and it would most likely be in my best interest to replace it before it fails on me. I was hoping it wouldn't involve dropping the tank. Who's the engineer who thought that was a good idea?

Alan

[cammerjeff]

Alan,

Your cold starting issue could be the fuel pump, but I would think that with fuel still in the float bowl of the carb it would fire up than stall and be hard to start while the pump refilled the lines. I was thinking it is most likely the fuel either leaking or boiling out of the carb float bowl. I know the Q-jets are known for pores casting in the lower part of the fuel bowl, that allow fuel to seep down into the intake manifold over time, usually over night or longer.
I don't find it to hard to believe that 2GC carbs could not have the same issue. Or it could be a combination of both. Good luck with it.
And as for the Engineer thinking it was a good Idea, remember the Pumps Usually lasted the 12 month 12,000 mile warranty period and that is usually all they worried about. What the customer had to pay 3 years into ownership did not even cross the minds of the ones in charge of GM or other auto makers at the time.
When you do replace the pump make sure you get a good quality part, I used to use 80's vintage BMW 3 series pumps from Napa but I have not had to replace one in 10 years so I don't know the best available part anymore.

[firebird77clone]

Change your tactics. Your'e starting it like It's a mechanical pump.

Do what I do:

Don't touch the gas, crank it for a full three seconds

Stop cranking, pump the gas four times.

Turn the key, it will start. Pat the gas to keep it alive.

Let it run for thirty seconds, and your'e good to go.

[starfire]

Change your tactics. Your'e starting it like It's a mechanical pump.

Do what I do:

Don't touch the gas, crank it for a full three seconds

Stop cranking, pump the gas four times.

Turn the key, it will start. Pat the gas to keep it alive.

Let it run for thirty seconds, and your'e good to go.

Well, technically I am starting it like they tell me in the owner's manual, but that's not working. I will try your method and see how it does. Thanks for the tip.

[Kev442]

Is the choke closing fully?

When you work the throttle under the hood, does the fuel squirt into both barrels in a nice stream?

If your fuel pump was that weak, the car would stall under acceleration.

[starfire]

Yes the choke closes fully.

Sorry, I might have confused people with my first post.

The idea about the fuel pump being bad was related to the check valve that I think is only in mechanical ones (I could be wrong on that) and fuel leaking back past the check valve. After realizing it was an electric fuel pump I began to wonder about how old it was, probably the original, and was musing to myself about replacing it prophylactically so I would have no (less) concerns about it failing and leaving me stranded. Now it sounds like my current one, even in its possibly advanced age, is more reliable than a new one (if one can be found). Perhaps the axiom "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" applies here.

[hammerdown7]

Another problem may still be associated with a working fuel pump. There is a short rubber tube that connects the fuel pump to the fuel line inside the tank. I have had that short rubber split. When that happens the fuel pump just circulates the fuel inside the tank. Yours may be starting to split.

Dick

[marco_1978_spyder]

Check the fuel filter in the fuel inlet...thats where the one way valve is, it comes built into the filter..

Many people removed it before they installed the filter.. Cant hurt to change the whole thing anyways.

[starfire]

Another problem may still be associated with a working fuel pump. There is a short rubber tube that connects the fuel pump to the fuel line inside the tank. I have had that short rubber split. When that happens the fuel pump just circulates the fuel inside the tank. Yours may be starting to split.

Dick

Thanks for the tip. That sounds like I would still need to drop the tank to check it.

[starfire]

Check the fuel filter in the fuel inlet...thats where the one way valve is, it comes built into the filter..

Many people removed it before they installed the filter.. Cant hurt to change the whole thing anyways.

Brand new fuel filter installed when I rebuilt the carb.

[starfire]

Has anybody tried this brand of fuel pump?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Spectra-Pre ... 1227390241