Aftermarket LS Oil pan?

[n8thenetninja]

I got my pan on, and the engine started finally. (swapping cylinder heads at the same time slowed me down a bit. heh.) With the correct torque and the GM gasket it seems to be sealing. I have only run it for a few minutes on jackstands though, so time will tell if it stays sealed. The steering clearance is much better than my bashed in Hamburger pan was. That's definitely a plus.

[n8thenetninja]

Update: After getting it put back together and road worthy, I took it on several test drives to calibrate shift points, then drove it around town a bit (probably 3 hours or so total), it lost half a quart of oil to a drip on the rear of the pan. The rear drivers side was the worst place for warpage, so I'm pretty sure it's the pan. It's of course possible that it's coming from my rear cover or rear main seal, but I don't think that's the case. My plan from here is to loosen up the pan bolts, check for foreign particles on the gasket, then try gooping it up with RTV before torquing it down again. I hope something works because I'm tired of losing oil. It's bad enough that I'm worried about getting black flagged at the drag strip. I'll post more when I know more.

P.S. When I have more information compiled, I may post a review on the entire powerbyace conversion kit and customer service experience...

[monzaaddict]

look to see if it is the fitting that can be drilled for oil oil sender that is on drivers rear of pan.

[n8thenetninja]

I put a plug where the oil level sensor would go. It doesn’t seem to be leaking from there

[monzaaddict]

any updates?

[n8thenetninja]

Sort of. The oil pressure/oil cooler delete plug (I think Corvettes use it?) the pan came with was on upside down (maybe to pack easier?) with the gasket flipped and slightly offset. Seems like he just finger tightened the bolts and then painted over it. After flipping that around, and tightening it down with a little RTV, the problem seemed a little better. It is still leaking from the rear of the pan, and since the flexplate is there, I can’t reach up there to goop it up with anything. I’m afraid I’m going to have to remove the pan completely in order to clean it off and put a layer of RTV on the gasket. I didn’t have the time to do that at the time, so for now I’m just watching the level until I can pull it all apart again. I also tried re-torquing the bolts without much success.

[Old Rob]

Sort of. The oil pressure/oil cooler delete plug (I think Corvettes use it?) the pan came with was on upside down (maybe to pack easier?) with the gasket flipped and slightly offset. Seems like he just finger tightened the bolts and then painted over it. After flipping that around, and tightening it down with a little RTV, the problem seemed a little better. It is still leaking from the rear of the pan, and since the flexplate is there, I can’t reach up there to goop it up with anything. I’m afraid I’m going to have to remove the pan completely in order to clean it off and put a layer of RTV on the gasket. I didn’t have the time to do that at the time, so for now I’m just watching the level until I can pull it all apart again. I also tried re-torquing the bolts without much success.

They don't remove the oil bypass. It's left as it comes from the manufacturer. The end user should have removed it to do a final cleaning. All parts should have final cleaning before assemble. There are several ways things can get contaminated before assemble. Not worth the risk.
The only problem there has been with the pan installation has been with the windage tray not being modified as per instructions. "IF THE WINDAGE TRAY IS NOT MODIFIED PER INSTRUCTIONS, THE PAN WILL RIDE ON THE PICKUP TUBE AND POSSIBLY CRACK, LEAK WHEN INSTALLED." If the windage tray was not modified, the oil pickup tube most likely is now bent. Straighting is all but impossible, even on the fixture. Luckily most people get a wobble and either email ACE tech or read the instructions. If instructions are followed a full length tay will work
Leaking at the rear is odd as all the welding affects the front of the pan. Most rear leaks from the LSx engines are from the rear seal housing. I know over 60 of these completed pans have been produced. The first two were trashed and this is only the third one to have a problem, to which I know ACE tech was never informed.

[n8thenetninja]

Yes, I trimmed the windage tray before installation. It would be pretty obvious that something was wrong if I hadn't, and I'm not in the habit of brute forcing things together. I haven't contacted ACE tech yet because I've been debating whether it would do any good or not. However, since ACE seems to have contacted me on the forums, (correct me if I'm wrong Old Rob) I suppose I might as well email them as challenged. I'll post the results of that conversation here whenever it's resolved.

[n8thenetninja]

Update: I pulled it all apart again and reinstalled the pan using a GM Performance one piece gasket (instead of the OEM AC Delco I used the first time), and put a thin bead of RTV on either side of the gasket, along the outside of the rubber part (to avoid squeezing it into the inside). Unfortunately while torquing it down again (to spec according to the manual), one of the rear cover bolt holes lost it's threads. It's been helicoiled once already, so I left it and torqued the rest down. When the engine warms up, it still drips from that corner. Since that bolt is loose, I can't say with certainty that the leak isn't due to that this time. I won't know until I pull the transmission and replace the cover. My theory right now is that since the leak was also a problem when there were two bolts in the rear cover, there's either a problem with the oil pan like I originally thought, or there's the possibility that there's a problem with the rear cover gasket or rear main seal. It's always hard to see up there, so anything is possible.

I probably won't have a chance (or motivation ) to pull it apart again for a couple weeks. I'll eventually post an update with what I find.

I have also been corresponding with Rob at ACE about the issue. He asked some questions and told me to try the RTV thing I mentioned above. He hasn't had a chance to comment about the results yet. Obviously he can comment here as well if he wants.

[n8thenetninja]

Figured I would post an update on thread since I left it hanging.

I sent the original pan back to ACE, and after a lot of back and forth, he sent me another one.

This time I also built a fresh 6.0l to replace the 5.7l that lost oil pressure. All the gaskets are new, and I replaced the rear cover. When I put the new pan on, I noticed it also didn't lay flat until I bolted it down. I meticulously torqued the pan in sequence, and installed the engine. It leaks in the same place as the last one. Dribbles oil all over the passenger side header, and some over on the oil filter.

I pulled everything apart and took the pan off (again), put RTV on both sides of the gasket, installed it finger tight and waited 12 hours. Torqued it in sequence again and put it all back together. Still leaks in the same place. I've been running it like that since there's nothing else wrong with it, but it's making a huge mess.

Yesterday I decided to try changing the crank position sensor, since that's one of the few parts that was in common with the old engine. No change. It also appears to be dry by the dipstick tube and the oil level sensor plug.

I'm open to suggestions to fix this (I'm super tired of it...). Some time when I have nothing better to do, maybe I'll bolt a stock pan to it and run it for a while to see if it leaks. That seems like it would confirm that it's the pan, or that it's something else. Of course that would also cost me 12 quarts of oil (6 to fill the stock pan, then 6 more to put it back together), and I couldn't drive it like that since the steering would be taken apart.

Since this is a completely different engine, with a leak in the same place, it indicates to me that there's a serious process problem with ACE. Two pans, two engines, same leak. I could be wrong, but I can't think of anything else that could be leaking. The rear cover is brand new and aligned perfectly with the block surface. It's not coming from the oil pressure sender, the cam sensor, or the crank sensor. I have put together 3 other LS engines and not had any oil leaks. I've owned two other stock ones and had no leaks.

[BadBowtie]

Thats a serious bummer. One of the biggest advantages to the LS platform (aside from the hp) is the whole engine has o-ring gaskets, super quick and easy. I was thinking it could be the oil cooler plate but you mentioned that already on the first engine. You figure if it was the pan, that with the silicone it would work itself out. Hope you're able to figure something out, an oil leak is always messy to deal with. I checked a few threads on LS1tech and most people say it winds up being valve cover gaskets or a bad PCV/hoses which can cause pooling and leaking oil down that side. Any chance you re-used any of that from the old engine?

[n8thenetninja]

I think I re-used the valve cover gaskets from the other engine because they were pretty new. The heads are dry though, so It's not coming from there. At first, I had the old style PCV system from the LS1, but I changed to the LS6 style PCV in the valley cover (with new hoses) a couple months ago in an attempt to fix this. No change from that either. The oil cooler plate also doesn't seem to be the culprit, since most of the oil is on the other side of the engine.

Yeah, you would think the RTV would seal it. Hasn't worked so far though. The rear of the pan is pretty rigid compared to the old style SBC pans you used to see. My theory is that during the welding, it deforms just enough so when the engine heats up, it pulls away from the corner of the block.

Could also be that I had 2 bad rear main seals, or rear cover gaskets, but that seems far fetched.

Unless I have some other epiphany for a way to make this pan work, I'll probably just have to tolerate it the rest of the racing season, and hope it doesn't get bad enough to black flag me at the line.

During the off season, I'm thinking I might try one of the other low profile aftermarket pans, run it for a while on jackstands, and if it seals, then figure out how to retrofit the steering and cross bracing to fit around it.

Other than this extremely irritating issue, the car is a blast. It ran 11.80 the other day in 80 degree weather at 5800' above sea level.

[monzaaddict]

i am not saying any of these are the cause of your leak but is the rear cover properly aligned. there are tools for this. is the cam sensor o ring leaking? there is also a sevrice bulletin about the rear engine covers having porosity problems. https://ls1tech.com/forums/parts-classi ... id=1&pid=1 https://ls1tech.com/forums/parts-wanted ... l-pan.html

[n8thenetninja]

Hey, I'm open to any suggestion at this point. I just want it to seal...

For the rear cover, when I had the engine on the stand, I installed the cover finger tight, then torqued the pan down, then torqued the cover. This method has worked for every other LS engine I've built, and every engine my dad has built. (several between the two of us). The rear main seal should center itself once it's on the crank unless it's out of spec enough for the pan to pull it too far one way (or unless the pan is out of spec... hmmm...). I installed the front cover before I had the pan available, so I just aligned it with a straight edge when I tightened it down. Haven't had a drop come out the front. When I had the pan off to RTV it, I checked the surface between the block and the cover with a straight edge, and it was flush. The gasket doesn't have a big tab hanging down like the thread shows for the front cover. Don't know if the front does either for that matter. I've always just put a dab of RTV on the seam between the covers, and haven't had an issue. It's also noteworthy that I never did a rebuild on the previous engine, and never took the rear cover off. So that one was aligned from the factory. If it's a porosity issue, then I have really bad luck getting two of them with the same problem. I bought the one that's on there now brand new from one of the OEM's (don't remember which one). Maybe the gasket is somehow crooked or faulty? Again, seems odd to have two have the same issue. Kind of a pain to take that off and check too. I'm not even sure I could drop the transmission without moving the engine first.

Cam sensor... I don't think so, but I'll try and double check. My intake manifold is sort of an air gap type, so I can see back there. When I was poking around last weekend, it wasn't visibly oiled. If I can reach back to feel around it might tell me more. Seems like a leak there would show on the top of the bell housing too, which doesn't seem consistent. I'll look again though to be sure.

[n8thenetninja]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-NshQeXu30
That's making me think maybe it's the cam sensor?... I forgot that o-ring is so far down, so it might not be obvious that it's leaking until you pull it out. I think I reused that sensor also. I'll let you all know when I have a chance to pull the intake off.

I sure hope that fixes it.... Fingers crossed.