Sanderson headers rant

[TimMcCabe]

I don't know what car Sanderson used to prototype the Vega/Monza headers, but I'm pretty sure it was not an H-Body!
I'm running the Trans Dapt front motor mounts.
The drivers side would not go into place due to the fact that there is not enough clearance between the frame and the block for the collector to fit through.
I had to grind the collector flange and a boss on the block just to make enough room for it to sneak by..
The passenger side is even worse, the tube for cyl 4 is hard against the inner fender, the engine would have to move left at least 1 inch or up about 2 inches just to get it even close .
I finally had to cut out and box in a notch in the right inner fender down by the upper control arm mount.
The real pisser is that if they would have just angled the header flange a few degrees, the thing would have just dropped into place.
What should have been a bolt in has turned into far to may hours of re-engineering!
I feel much better now that I have that off my chest

Cheers,
Tim

[megavega]

your not alone, check out page 5, viewtopic.php?f=20&t=43036

looks like a design change and still selling old inventory!

[zeke]

Tim;

Which passenger header do you have?

[TimMcCabe]

Hi Chris,

The one I have is the top style (black). Even the second style looks like you might have to dent the #6 tube to clear the fender.
There is more then enough room between the header and the block, if they would just have angled the header flange a few degrees before welding the pipes in place, it would fit perfectly!.
It was easier to cut out a piece of the inner fender then to detach all 4 tubes from the flange, reweld and hope there is no leak.

Tim

[zeke]

You have Vortec heads on that TPI right?

I'm fully expecting a nightmare install from everything I've read.

Love to see some pics of your install.

[KZVEGA]

Mine went in without a fight. Put the drivers side in before the motor to get around steering shaft passenger, side dropped in. Hooker header on the other hand....those took some finesse.
Passenger Sanderson
/media/1972%20VEGA/IMAG0064_zpsz3vyfw8r.jpg.html

[spencerforhire]

One of biggest variables with header fitment appears to be with the motor mounts. The aftermarket(Trans Dapt, Hooker, etc) all seem to put the engine in different places, and none of them, apparently in the OEM position.
I'm waiting to see how Zeke makes out before I sell my Hooker 2135's. I'd like the added ground clearance the shorty style Sandersons make possible.

[mahoy78spyder]

Yeah my comment on this is that it was always my assumption these headers were made for the stock-style motor mounts that placed the motor in the factory position. But beyond that, I can't comment because I've not attempted to install these yet as that stage of my build is waaaaay off. I do, however, seem to have the older style passenger side design with the #2 cylinder tube going behind instead of above, but I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

[TimMcCabe]

I agree about the motor mount style, I'm using Trans-Dapt and they seem to mount the motor lower then the factory Monza mounts would.
The fact that there never was a "Factory" V8 Vega, I wonder what mounts were used when the headers were designed (or did they just assume that if they fit Monza they would fit Vega). I think the Trans-Dapt and Hooker mounts are the same, Don Hardy mounts bolted to the original 4 cyl mounting position and looks like it sits the engine an inch or more higher then the front mounts do.. KZvega, what mounts do you have, your engine sits higher then mine does.
I'll post a few pictures once I get it all sorted out.

Tim

[KZVEGA]

I was using the Don Hardy mounts. Now switched to a motor plate and hooker headers.

[Monza Harry]

I know from reading Bob Gumm's site that the stock mounts sagged a lot with time, and my old V8 pan verifies this with every crater caused by road debris, so even factory mounts doesn't guaranty anything either. I spoke to Sanderson's on the phone, and customer (or potential, customers as the case may be) service is apparently optional with them I wasn't impressed after my phone call! And while there may be few options wrapping a pipe around the steering shaft isn't very impressive either! Harry

[Smiley]

Sandersons fit good with Don Hardy mounts and a notch in the passenger side frame/fender brace. If the engine is still in the car or you do not have a welder to notch and box the area in red Sandersons would be a pain. The drivers side going around the steering shaft should have been avoided also.
They could have designed them better but for cost, ground clearance and ease of installation I chose them over cast manifolds or big tube Hooker race headers. The 2nd design pass header is for angle plug heads.
My Vortec heads moved the spark plugs .250" closer to the exhaust ports further reducing plug to tube clearance so I would not use Vortec heads again on a Vega.

CC13 mods.jpg

[TimMcCabe]

Hi Smiley,

That notch in the frame is exactly what I had to do, what a PITA to MIG weld with the engine still in the car.
I also found that the oil cooler on my TPI don't work either, the header wants to occupy the same real estate coolant lines are running in.
That one is not Sanderson's fault, but just one more issue to overcome.
I modified the drivers side header to allow more room for the steering shaft to pass through,
I think that Sanderson could have run the number one tube up over the top like the angle plug right side design, then the steering shaft would not have to pass through at all.

Cheers,
Tim

[KZVEGA]

Really surprised to see all these issues. Mine literally dropped in, no notch or anything.

[Monza Harry]

The drivers side would not go into place due to the fact that there is not enough clearance between the frame and the block for the collector to fit through.
The passenger side is even worse, the tube for cyl 4 is hard against the inner fender, the engine would have to move left at least 1 inch or up about 2 inches just to get it even close .
The real pisser is that if they would have just angled the header flange a few degrees, the thing would have just dropped into place.
Cheers, Tim

Tim it may be a little late for this idea, but could you have angle milled the flange at the head to header point with a little angle to move the header closer to the block? (Passenger side, I am not seeing it in front of me and realize that there may not be enough material to make that work either) Not that there is more room from the bottom but could the driver's side header have came in from the bottom with out the "Mod"? I know that you would have had to remove the clutch or slave and ??? to make that happen but sometimes these things are so far from intuitive and practical that we have to think outside the box so far that we are in the next one [box]. Harry P.S. I may have reversed these in my head while typing, Sorry if that is the case. I believe this is correct now.