Battery cable 101

[ol55]

Looking at changing my battery cables as a [i]possible [i] cure for my not starting when hot issue.
Questions:
1)What size are the originals?
2)Were the later Monza V-8s bigger diameter?
3)What size should I use with the 327 sbc?
4) Any recommendations?
5) Think it might solve a hot start issue?

Thanks,
Larry

[cjbiagi]

I had custom battery cables made with 2 gauge cable, this was the largest they could use with stock type side connectors. I believe the stock ones are 6 gauge so this is a sizeable increase. It may help with the hot start but most likely it starter heat soak causing the problem. Your best bet is to use a delco style hi torque mini starter as pictured below. They work much better than the old original style starters. You can also try and fab up a heat shield for the starter, anything you can do to keep the heat away from the starter will help. Make sure you also have a good ground on the engine block and all your connections are clean and tight. Here is where I had my cables made.
http://www.wiringharness.com/

[rickhunter1max]

I tried using that Delco starter ended up Using the Hitachi starters I had spacing problems the gear was too deep and I put my battery in the back with the double ground Cables




Hitachi with no spacing



With spacing

[TimMcCabe]

Hot start issues with the starter not engaging is usually caused by excessive voltage drop across the ignition switch. Installing a relay under the hood on the purple wire to the solenoid will usually fix the problem. Splice the purple wire so that it powers the relay coil from the ignition switch and the relay then send power down to the starter solenoid through a direct connection to the battery.

Cheers,
Tim

[ol55]

Hot start issues with the starter not engaging is usually caused by excessive voltage drop across the ignition switch. Installing a relay under the hood on the purple wire to the solenoid will usually fix the problem. Splice the purple wire so that it powers the relay coil from the ignition switch and the relay then send power down to the starter solenoid through a direct connection to the battery.

Cheers,
Tim

This is interesting because I do see a voltage drop when this occurs. Also seems to be the easiest fix. I don't understand the power through a direct connection to the battery (101, remember?). Any specific relay?

I have not found the delco mini starter yet but am still searching.

Anybody else have the spacing issue? Am using a Vega bell housing with a 153(?) tooth flywheel.

Thanks to all so far,
Larry

[cjbiagi]

I can get you a starter like in the pic, which is what I am using. I like the delco style because of the way the end of the starter gear is supported on the outboard end with the traditional nose piece. I did have to shim my starter but that is common practice on pretty much all starters. Not sure why the interference problem? Usually the starter solenoid would cause the hot start problem which is why many guys would use a Ford style remote solenoid or a aftermarket version. Again, the problem is the excessive heat radiating on the starter (and solenoid). Do you have headers?

[TimMcCabe]

Here is a basic diagram of what you need to do..



Basically, cut the purple wire under the hood that goes down to the starter solenoid
- the side from the ignition switch hooks up to terminal 86 on the relay
- the side going down to the starter solenoid hooks up to terminal 87
- terminal 85 is connected to ground
- terminal 30 is connected to B+ (25 AMP fuse)

When you turn the key to crank the engine over, the relay coil is energized, the relay then sends 12v (with no loss of power through the switch) to the starter and your car starts every time.
The relay coil takes very little current to energize and will still work at 8 or 9 volts, so the loss through the ignition switch does not matter. The relay has very little voltage drop, so it can supply all the current needed for the starter solenoid to fully engage.

Cheers,
Tim

[Monza Harry]

Here is a basic diagram of what you need to do..



Basically, cut the purple wire under the hood that goes down to the starter solenoid
- the side from the ignition switch hooks up to terminal 86 on the relay
- the side going down to the starter solenoid hooks up to terminal 87
- terminal 85 is connected to ground
- terminal 30 is connected to B+ (25 AMP fuse)

When you turn the key to crank the engine over, the relay coil is energized, the relay then sends 12v (with no loss of power through the switch) to the starter and your car starts every time.
The relay coil takes very little current to energize and will still work at 8 or 9 volts, so the loss through the ignition switch does not matter. The relay has very little voltage drop, so it can supply all the current needed for the starter solenoid to fully engage.

Cheers,
Tim

I would like to add that the wire for that much current should be at least a 10Ga. wire with sound connections [Soldered crimp connectors and heat shrink over your joint] and the same with the wiring from terminal #86 This is serious power even in a car, skimping here will potentially end in a fire or at least a LONG walk home. Also check the wiring for internal corrosion I had a starter/battery cable looked perfect on the outside but was "Straight up Green" inside and caused all sorts of intermittent issues. [problem happened when you exceeded the power that wire could handle but ok otherwise! This could be the same as Tim is saying just a little further down the [purple] wire. Harry P.S. Tim's fix is a solid upgrade even if you find another problem and it fixes the issue for now, this will remove a common problem recurring over and over in many "Hot Rod's"

[Kenova]

I have my Nova's solenoid wired up to a relay as Tim suggested.
I was reading Hot Rod to the Rescue in a past issue and they mentioned just how much current a solenoid can draw.
A relay is a very good idea.

Ken

[ol55]

Is there a part number for the relay or the starter? My napa guy gets on me when I say " hot rod" for make, model, and year.

He did pull up a starter for a '95 pickup with a 350 that looks right.

Thanks,
Larry

[Monza Harry]

Larry then you should tell him 1973 Vega GT Hatchback with the "Original 454 Option" just to show him you know how to really P s him off! I would have to go out to the garage to check, [and it is POURING Rain right now and I may melt, or at least carry on like a great big BABY] but I think that your "350 P/U" that you checked would have the bolt pattern for the large "Flexplate/Flywheel" Harry

Wrong Starter.jpg

note the S10/Sonoma starter has a staggered mount and Clyde's is straight.download/file. php?id=38754 http://www.rockauto.com/info/41/1-06485_1.jpg P.S. Note that the "solenoid" is clocked differently as well

[TimMcCabe]

Here is a link to the type of relay you will need
https://www.radioshack.com/products/12vdc-spst-automotive-relay?variant=5717483909
Any relay with this configuration will work.

Cheers,
Tim

[ol55]

Bought a GM style mini starter. Hard part was getting the old one out with the Don Hardy headers. A lift would have helped.
Bought the relay but have not installed yet. Found another relay in the back that my buddy Dwight had bought. Great minds think alike!

-starts hot or cold now.

Thanks to all,
Larry

[cjbiagi]

With the Delco style mini starter you may not need to change any wiring or add a relay. These starters are smaller which means more clearance between the exhaust (headers) and also draw less current and have more torque than the old big starters. I have no issues on my 350 Monza with Hooker 2135 headers with the stock wiring harness. I did upgrade my battery cables as I mentioned earlier and I also added a large ground strap between the engine and the chassis to help maintain a good ground to the chassis.