S10 Ball Joint conversion advice

[NixVegaGT]

Hey guys. I got a PM from a fellow member asking for input on converting to an all S10 BJ conversion. I responded with more information than I expected. I thought maybe others could use the information:

The things I'd have done differently were:

Get that ubmachine ball joint sleeve. (I actually cut out the stock S10 sleeve and welded that in.) and weld the LBJ centerline inboard about 1/4" from the stock LBJ centerline.

On the UBJ: it's hard to keep this at centerline to the stock BJ but push it out as far as you can within reason. The natural position of the S10 BJ will put it inboard about 1/8" exacerbating the camber issue. My point is, if the front edge of the BJ hangs off the edge a little it will be fine as long as the main hole is flat all the way around, and the four retainer bolts have flat surfaces to fit to. If that doesn't make sense let me know. I think it will when you put your hands directly on the UCAs.

The last thing on the UCAs: Try to move the new mount location back as far as you can too. GM set up these cars (Vega) to be as easy to drive as possible while keeping manufacture cost as low as possible. They used a manual steering boxes and put the caster damn near 0º. This made steering easier but really scary at high speed. I don't think they thought people like us would get our hands on them. This may not be as big an issue with my later cousins but I suspect the '75 Monza will still have this setup.

Just get things as close as you can. There is some adjustment in the suspension to take up the inconsistency but it's better to try to keep the geometry as even as possible. I don't think jigs are necessary the likelihood is you'll do better than the factory did.

Some more obvious advice, use a quality welder with a CO2/Argon gas shield. (You probably already know that but just in case) I actually bought a lower price point Miller MIG (It's called Hobart, it's made by Miller). It wasn't cheap but I've used it a lot! In the end it was worth the money.

Thanks for asking about it. It was fun to write about. I'm really glad someone will be able to benefit from the mistakes I made. Back when I did this there wasn't much talk about it. I should make a duplicate post about this in the suspension thread...

If you want to see what I did I've got pix in my CarDomain page. I did end up going with a fully adjustable UCA.

[70styleVega]

I appreciate the comments.... I started a thread some time ago about the S10 spindle swap without the negative camber.
I didn't really get as many replies that talked directly to a solution as I had hoped.

The negative camber issue (with junkyard S10 parts) is the only thing that the Dirtmod thread left out. I believe that if you do the same swap, but do the UBJ first, attach the spindle assembly and let it dictate the location of the LBJ in the LCA, the camber problem will go away. (You have to consider before and after ride height also).

I plan on doing this swap within the next couple of months: I'll verify your suggestions and will post a reply.

Tom

[NixVegaGT]

That's a good idea, Tom. I've been tossing around the idea of making a webpage for this topic dealing with the dimensional discrepancies and suggesting using the ubmachine sleeve and mounting it inboard to correct the camber problem. We could take it another step though and maybe you and I could work together on a webpage. We could use some pix of your install process incorporating the camber correction by installing the upper first and I could put together a build page. I think it would really strengthen the community. I believe swapping for the S10 BJs is the best upgrade for availability and strength.

What do you think?

[ColinOpseth]

I went with S10 upper ball joints on my last suspension rebuild. Are you saying that the S10 upper should be moved inward? I just opened my stock holes out enough for the S10 ball joint to fit.

On the lower side I'm using V8 Monza ball joints.

I'd be interested in seeing some more info on the swap so I can fix any alignment problems I may run into.

Thanks,
colin

[NixVegaGT]

No the lower needs to move inward because the lower mount "ear" on the S10 spindle is about 1/4" farther away from the spindle than the stock H spindle mount location. Make sense?

I didn't find that out until I had actually already welded in my sleeves or I'd have mounted them inboard farther. I never considered modifying and mounting the uppers first and measure from there. That was a really good idea.

[70styleVega]

NixVegaGT
Sorry I didn't get back to you right away.... Sure, we can do a joint effort to fine tune the S10 spindle swap and document it.

Also, I'm relatively new to this forum, I haven't posted any photos yet or learned how to fully navigate this site.... (I may need coaching).
It will be a huge help to me to have contact with someone who has rebuilt an H-body front end.... this is my 1st H-body. I've read that it can be big fun.

[NixVegaGT]

Let's communicate via email. Let me know when you are ready to mess with the front end. Then we can make a plan and when to get pix during the process.

Send me an email when you get a chance.

nic@ghostproductions.com

[spyder_xlch]

No the lower needs to move inward because the lower mount "ear" on the S10 spindle is about 1/4" farther away from the spindle than the stock H spindle mount location. Make sense?

I've read an article or 2 on the swap and never heard about the 1/4" difference on the lower spindle mount. Maybe I just missed it but thanks for sharing.

[ColinOpseth]

That makes perfect sense. I'll have to keep that in mind when I convert my lowers to S10.

If you can document something and put it in .pdf I'm sure Dennis would be happy to toss it into the Library.

Take care,
Colin