X-body (2nd Gen '75-'79) Spindle Swap

[Monzsta]

As you may know from past ramblings of mine I have been in the throes of a unique suspension set up that may replace the horrid S-10 spindle swap altogether.

GM loved to design their suspension systems with a ton of positive camber gain. This, coupled with the immense body roll assured understeer and poor handling.

1st gen Camaro owners have relied upon a simple mod, called the Guildstrand mod, essentially redrilling and lowering the upper control arm cross bar mounts, thus causing the arc of the upper control arm to be more distinct and creating negative camber when the suspension is compressed. Ball joint extenders and taller spindles achieve the same effect, which brings me to our X-body swap.

A long time ago, Monzamess had grabbed some spindles from the wrecking yard and thought Malibu spindles were the same as Nova spindles. They weren't, and he went on to lament about the taller upper ball joint location. This got me thinking, after just completing the S-10 spindle swap and hating it, that I'd get a set of spindles and see if I could make it work.

Once the X-body spindles were home the differences were huge. 11' discs. Huge piston calipers. Oh, yeah. I'll get these puppies on or die trying.

I ended up cutting a section out of the upper control arm to both add some positive caster and add some initial negative camber. I also installed an S-10 upper ball joint as far back and rearward as possible. This is a fabricator's mod, and I don't recommend it, unless you are extremely comfortable cutting and welding on your control arms. Grab a set of adjustable upper control arms instead. It would be much easier, but I haven't the $300 to cut lose right now.

Here's pics of my current angles after the X-body spindles are installed. The wheel is not the one I'll be running, as the 3.5" back spacing puts it outside the fender.

Full droop:


Approx. level ride height:


Full compression:


Tons more to come.

[cjbiagi]

One of Guldstrands trick was to use a spindle off a fullsize Chevy (if I remember correctly) on a A body car. These were taller spindles and they would result in negative camber gain in a corner. It accomplishes this by positioning the upper A arm at a slight upper angle at static ride height. He had some great tricks that could be adapted to other cars once you understand the philosophy. Oh, I have no idea what yoour pics are supposed to be showing?

[Monzsta]

The camber of the wheel at different heights.

B-body spindles are truly massive, and also use different ball joint taper sizes as well. I looked into them for the 12" brakes, but they would require much more work than the X-body's. It also looked to me like the steering arm was far different and would induce nasty bump steer. With the X-body spindles, the bump steer is almost 0.

[spyder_xlch]

So in a nutshell the X-body spindles would be a better swap than the S-10 spindles? Assuming you had adjustable uppers. And what about a bump steer kit like this http://www.spohn.net/shop/1982-2003-GM- ... 0-2WD.html

[cjbiagi]

The pics I see are not showing much of anything other than a road and a shovel and some cars in the background?

[hammerdown7]

Clyde,

On the far right of the picture, the aluminum wheel without a tire, as you go from top to bottom the angle of the edge of the wheel changes camber. I had to look twice but there it was.

Dick

[Kenova]

Look at the angle of the wheel as it moves upward. The upward movement simulates the car leaning into the corner. If the car where actually leaning into a corner with this setup, the wheel and tire would be perpendicular to the road, perhaps even have some negative camber. You could just about kiss understeer good bye.
Well done Monzsta. I'm anxiously waiting for the results from the test drive.

Ken

^^^ I need to learn how to type faster!

[Monzsta]

So in a nutshell the X-body spindles would be a better swap than the S-10 spindles? Assuming you had adjustable uppers. And what about a bump steer kit like this http://www.spohn.net/shop/1982-2003-GM- ... 0-2WD.html

Those could be useful...
10.5" rotors vs 11" rotors? 2 3/8" calipers vs 2 15/16" calipers? I think it'd be worth it for the bigger brakes alone. The camber gain is a bonus.


UPDATE: After happening upon this website from our S-truck brethern, I may re-investigate the B-body spindle. Too much of a good thing (brakes) is never enough.

http://www.vessels-clan.com/jay/truck/brake/front.htm

[spyder_xlch]

Good link. Let us know what you come up with.

[mldeolde]

just to stirthe pot a little. my latest findings seem to be indicating that i have early Camero ie 69 ,spindles and Corvette 11.75 discs with the Camero bearings and races installed. just something else that may be a possable swap to get some killer brakes on some of our faster/quicker cars...........

[T-FATTY]

So, any updates?

So in a nutshell the X-body spindles would be a better swap than the S-10 spindles? Assuming you had adjustable uppers. And what about a bump steer kit like this http://www.spohn.net/shop/1982-2003-GM- ... 0-2WD.html

Those could be useful...
10.5" rotors vs 11" rotors? 2 3/8" calipers vs 2 15/16" calipers? I think it'd be worth it for the bigger brakes alone. The camber gain is a bonus.


UPDATE: After happening upon this website from our S-truck brethern, I may re-investigate the B-body spindle. Too much of a good thing (brakes) is never enough.

http://www.vessels-clan.com/jay/truck/brake/front.htm

[monzaaddict]

just to stirthe pot a little. my latest findings seem to be indicating that i have early Camero ie 69 ,spindles and Corvette 11.75 discs with the Camero bearings and races installed. just something else that may be a possable swap to get some killer brakes on some of our faster/quicker cars...........

you have 63-82 corvette spindles steering arms and balljoints. the tips of the corvette lower control arms have been grafted to the monza control arms. the steering arms have been cut and rewelded to correct for bumpsteer and/or ackermann.

here is a picture of the vette spindles on ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/63-64-65 ... otohosting

[waybad]

just to stirthe pot a little. my latest findings seem to be indicating that i have early Camero ie 69 ,spindles and Corvette 11.75 discs with the Camero bearings and races installed. just something else that may be a possable swap to get some killer brakes on some of our faster/quicker cars...........

I might be wrong but I think 69 spindles are rear steer?
TC

[monzaaddict]

just to stirthe pot a little. my latest findings seem to be indicating that i have early Camero ie 69 ,spindles and Corvette 11.75 discs with the Camero bearings and races installed. just something else that may be a possable swap to get some killer brakes on some of our faster/quicker cars...........

I might be wrong but I think 69 spindles are rear steer?
TC

camaro spindles are rear steer but the steering ams bolt on. they can be reversed and used on hbody's.

[mldeolde]

yes i thought i had corvette spindles for the longest time untill i e-mailed the spindles od's for the inner ond outer bearing surfaces to a vette specialty fabricator i have been doing business with to get the Wilwood calipers to mate to my brake setup. the spindle sizes were not vette but were within tolerence of being exactly what the early CAMEROS have and the bearings and races i believe are interchangable ie Camero spindles with the big 11.75 inch big vette rotors that are cheap to come by and readily available... yes my spindles possably are reversed but seem to work just fine with the other grafted on vette parts. now if i can only get dareing enough to get some drilled slotted rotors on it it should theoretically stop on a dime so to speak instead of the rather lack luster performence of the stock factory systems. just another possable way to go that may be a reasonably priced alternative for max stopping power without the expense of thos mega buck 13 inch plus rotored six piston monster brake systems that the big manufactuers would like your hard earned money on.