EagleFish wrote:The information that you need is in the FAQ section of the club site. I have copied it and pasted it in below so that you do not have to go looking.
NOTE #1: There are three (3) different pitman arms. When you convert from a P/S setup to a M/S setup, you will ahve to change the center link (drag link) also, as they are different. If you do not do tis your internal gearbox centering and/or your sterring wheel centering will be off. There is more involved than just changing the steering box. There are other differences as stated below.NOTE #2: The P/S and M/S pitman arms ARE different!
The Vega M/S pitman arm part # is - 3978040;
The Vega P/S pitman arm part # is: 3978101
These arms have different lengths and different angles. They may bolt up look okay but, your steering geometry is going to be off.David (monzaaddict) adds:
"The quick ratio box has an input shaft about three inches long as opposed to one inch for the Vega manual box. The last three digits of the numbers on the box are 142. Box was also (first) used on V8 manual steering Monzas and then the Cosworth Vega. Box directly replaces power steering box with square cover (not box with round cover that came on some Monzas). Pitman arm is supposedly same as found on power steering box."
4.2 How do I convert my manual steering to power (or vice-versa)?
Get the box, steering shaft, Pitman arm, and steering center link from a car with the kind of steering you want. Those parts are all different and not interchangeable for power vs. non-power steering. See question 4.14 for tips on how to create a custom steering shaft from donor parts.
MOOG part numbers:
DS889: Power steering center link (relay rod)
DS816: Non-power steering center link (relay rod)
K6196: Idler arm
ES425RL: Outer tie rod end
ES681N: Inner tie rod end
ES2032S: Adjusting sleeves
Flaming River sells new Vega-style manual boxes.
Special notes for going to power (V8): the alternator must be moved (new brackets belts, lengthen wiring harness) to the other side of the engine to make room for the larger power box.
After 1979, GM used a larger diameter input shaft on power steering units, so beware of this as you look for parts!
Tom (TheAstre) writes:
"Be careful not to mix apples and oranges. Last Summer, I swapped out the standard steering in my 75 Astre for power steering out of my old 76 Astre. Both were 4-cyl. But I can tell you this... Lots of little things had to change. The standard Vega Manual Gearbox is much shorter and smaller than the Power Steering Gearbox. The Steering column had to be changed because the steering shaft is different depending on which steering box is used.
Also changed was the pitman arm and the center link, because the center link had a different part number. It mated up and looked OK, but I thought it hung a little too low. Also, I had to move the Alternator from the driver side to the passenger side. This required a different mounting bracket, which required changing the timing belt cover, due to a small difference. Now that the Alternator had to move, I had to change the wire harness, as the other one was too short to reach the new position of the alternator. No big deal for cutting and hacking, but to get everything to look stock, lots of tiny things had to be swapped. I have heard that the Cosworth manual steering box is larger than the standard Vega manual steering box. I heard that it is the same as the Monza V-8 manual box. I don't know for sure, but can check for you. So if you are swapping Monza gearboxes, there may be other considerations."
Then he adds: "If you decide to change to a manual gearbox, make sure to get all the other pieces you will need. The manual gearbox is a few inches shorter, so you will need to switch the steering column rod. Some years are different, so it is easier to just switch the entire steering column, steering wheel and all.
The pitman arm is different, but that usually comes with used steering boxes. The center link offset is different where it bolts to the pitman arm. It will bolt up and be drivable. But your steering wheel will be offset. You could just index the steering wheel on the column post, but this leads to other problems. The turn signals will be off by [the same offset]. Worst of all, the centering dynamics of the steering box and linkage will be off by that same [offset]. The natural balance of a centered gearbox will be distorted. This will be more noticeable and critical to handling at high speeds. Even Moog lists the manual and power center links as different part numbers. If you get parts to swap. Pull them yourself. Mark the alignment of every piece with a grease crayon. Some parts only fit in one position, but others will leave you wondering if you have it lined up right. So, take the column, gearbox, pitman arm, spacer between gearbox and frame, center link, and idler arm."
Later Tom wrote: "The Vega Manual gearbox is much smaller/shorter than the Vega/Monza Power gearbox. You will need a Manual steering column to make up the length difference. Or, use a manual gearbox from a Monza or Cosworth Vega. I have heard that they are the same length as the power gearbox. Last year, I switched my Astre from manual to power and learned of all the differences.
Three BIG things to consider: 1) On standard Vega and Cosworth, the manual gearbox uses a shim between the frame and the gearbox. Without this, your gearbox will not internally center properly.
2)
The Pitman arms are different. Use the Pitman arm that is correct for the gearbox.
3)
The center link is different. The point the connects to the Pitman arm is about 1-1/2 inches different in length. If you don't switch the center link, your steering gearbox will be internally off center. Your steering wheel will be about 1/4 turn to one side. You could re-align the steering wheel on the column shaft, but the gearbox will still be off center internally.
Without all the correct pieces, the steering geometry will be off. The car will tend to turn easier to one side than the other. Not bad for around the city, but at highway speeds it is far more noticeable.
If you do Monza to Monza, everything is the same size. Only the Vega Manual Gearbox is smaller and shorter than the others. The steering column shaft is at least 2 inches different in length. There is no way one could "make it fit". The Vega manual center link is different where it connects to the Pitman arm. The end is 1-1/2 longer and sets at a different height. For a Vega to Vega conversion, this will cause the center link to either rub on the oil pan, if you go power to manual, or rub on the K-frames if you go manual to power. Mine did, till I changed the center link."
Duke (doctorduke) adds,
about Pitman arms:
"
All the couplings you refer to are keyed, so they should only go together in one orientation. There are THREE H-body pitman arms. The CV uses the same pitman arm as V-6 and V-8 H-bodies with manual steering. All H-bodies with P/S use a second pitman arm. The third pitman arm is used on 140s w/o PS. Make sure you have the correct pitman arm."
3pedals wrote:I've never seen an early Vega with power steering but my books show all the parts and numbers.
I've never seen an early Vega with tilt and my books don't show tilt pieces, '71 through '74.
Brian said "these reports are not gospel". I agree with Brian's Options/Shipments (O/S) reports.
Aprox. 69,244 early cars ('71-'2-'3) came with P/steering. .... (Aprox. 1 in 16 cars came with P/S.)
Aprox. 46,813 Vegas/Monzas ('75) came with tilt. ............. (Aprox. 1 in 7 cars came with tilt.)
--------------------This is mostly about early Vegas; '71-'72-'73 --------------------
Question # 1: Did early Vegas have P/S? ............................Yes. As per O/S reports & parts catalogs (P/C).
Question # 2: What was the first year for P/S? .................... '71. As per O/S and P/C reports.
Question # 3: Did early Vegas have tilt? ............................. No. As per O/S and P/C reports.
Question # 4: What was the first year for tilt? ..................... '75. As per O/S and P/C reports.
Question # 5: Do all P/S columns have coupler and rag? .......... Yes. As per parts catalogs.
Question # 6: Do non/P/S columns have coupler and rag? ......... No. As per parts catalogs.
Question # 7: Do all tilt columns have coupler and rag? ........... Yes. As per parts catalogs.
Question # 8: Do non/tilt columns have coupler and rag? ......... No. As per parts calalogs.
Question # 9: Are all upper rags 1"? ................................... I don't know. '75 cosworth yes.
Queation #10: Are all lower couplers 5/8" or 3/4"? ................ Yes. (Small box _ P/S and Big box, respectively)
Question #11: Are all mid shafts the same length? ................. Yes. '71 thru '75.
Qusetion #12: Can 5/8" and 3/4" couplers be swaped? ............. Yes. They're interchangable.
... Descripition ............. Year ...................... OEM # .......... MOOG #
Coupler M/S-5/8"........... '71-'75 ................... 7810229
Coupler P/S-3/4" ........... '71-'74 ................... 7811023
Upper rag-P/S............... '71-'74 ................... 7811014
Mid shaft .................... '71-'74 ................... 7811016
Center link-M/S ............ '71-'75 ................... 3978041 .......... DS-816
Center link-P/S ............. '71-'75 ................... 3978102 ..........DS-889
Idler arm - All ...............'71-'75 ................... 3978043 .......... K-6196
Pitman arm M/S ............ '71-'75 ................... 3978040
Pitman arm P/S ............ '71-'75 ................... 3978101
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