Need help with front end alignment

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Need help with front end alignment

Postby Bobrsss » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:32 pm

My front end needs aligning bad! I have installed the S-10 spindles ,Bob Gumm fittings and new ball joints. Right now the tires are way out. I'll try to get pics.. According to my front end guy, we cant move the lower control arms in any father. The upper control arms have no adjustments at all. Who knows how to fix this?
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Re: Need help with front end alignment

Postby monzajer » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:24 pm

Hey Bob, when you did the S-10 conversion did you move the BJ location or leave it H-body stock?

If I remember correctly the new location for the S-10 conversion moves the BJ IN about 1/4". I might be wrong with that dimension.

Have you done a search for the S-10 conversion? Several members have done the conversion. Should be easy to find threads on the topic. Use the search engine (upper right corner) to seek out info while someone else chimes in.

Good luck and have fun. 8) :D

cheers, jer :mrgreen:
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Re: Need help with front end alignment

Postby Bobrsss » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:31 pm

I left it in the stock position. I used stock ball joints.Thought that was what the S-10 spindle change was all about. Use the same ball joints in the stock location. Is that wrong? did I miss a step?
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Re: Need help with front end alignment

Postby 73astregt » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:34 pm

when i did the s10 conversion on my astre i used monza lower ball joints with bobs adaptors and adjustable upper control arms that i purchased thru cosvega76. the adjustable upper arms made all the alignment problems go away for me, my car steers great and will run down the highway straight as a dime at any speed i choose and no tire wear problems. if the arms i bought are no longer available get some from overkill racing. no need of moving the lower ball joint position the way mine is done. p.s. the arms i got thru chuck came with instructions and alignment specs :th: here is a link to my journal if you want to see what the arms look like: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=26282
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Re: Need help with front end alignment

Postby monzajer » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:15 pm

Bob, I don't know, maybe I'm an idiot or somethin, but I could swear there was something, like moving the ball joint in that made a difference. I have looked for that thread and can't find it. Sorry, man, I don't mean to mislead you. I haven't done the conversion so I can't speak from experience. I have been here for quite a while now and followed a lot of threads. I guess I'm wrong about the BJ location thing, but still...I thought for sure there was something else that needed to be done to correct the problem you are having.

C'mon, somebody must know the thread I am talking about. The guy had pics and stated he moved the BJ to help correct the alignment issue. Anybody remember this? Or AM I squirrel turds? :crazy: :oops:
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Re: Need help with front end alignment

Postby 76Vega » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:05 pm

You can also try using eccentric upper control arm bushings to move your upper control arm in or out to were you need it.
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Re: Need help with front end alignment

Postby my79monza » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:18 pm

How do you use the eccentric bushings?
They are press fit how do you know what rotation needed before pressing together?
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Re: Need help with front end alignment

Postby Kenova » Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:08 am

Bobrsss wrote:.. According to my front end guy, we cant move the lower control arms in any farther.


Sounds like you are a victim of the dreaded "Frame Spread". The theory is that the front frame rails spread apart for a variety of reasons. You can check the frame rails against the factory specs (there are drawings somewhere on this web site). The traditional fixes are offset bushings.
Another good fix is the adjustable front cross member built by some of our members (Tim McCabe has done it). The modified cross member allows you to draw the frame rails towards each other. I haven't been able to find a thread on it but I'm sure someone will post a link for it.

Ken
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Re: Need help with front end alignment

Postby 73astregt » Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:47 pm

moving the lower ball joint in is an option nixvegagt i believe did it for one has pix in his journal, the way i did it didnt involove any cutting or welding was an easier option for me. if you have frame spread tim mccabe had a cure for that it involved using a chain to the pass rail and attached to the pitman arm cranked the wheel over and fixed the crossmember best i can remember.
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Re: Need help with front end alignment

Postby cjbiagi » Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:58 pm

Merle, you have to have an idea of where you want the upper control arm to be, then that will determine the orientation that you press the bushing in. Remember, you can still fine tune it with the lower cams, so what you are trying to do is get it somewhere near spec with the upper ones and then do the final alignment with the lowers.
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Re: Need help with front end alignment

Postby 76Vega » Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:39 pm

Exactly how i was going to put it Cjbiagi, also note that the upper control arm bushings press in and out extremely easy (i used a old OTC ball joint press to do my left upper control arm, but i forgot to bring it back to the garage on my next work day so i used a large socket and the bench vise to remove and install the right side one's). I find that the eccentric upper bushings is the easier way out of this situation. here is a link to a set on e-bay(very good price)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1975-80-BUICK-O ... 7483587926

If in fact you do have frame spread, There are a couple of things you can do, from my own experience on my old 73 gt i had to remove the k member and make my own, i simply welded L brackets to the lca area and drilled a hole in each side and used rod and rod ends, basically replace the k-member with rod and rod ends so i could pull the front end back into place, at the time it was a very inexpensive way to make sure it stayed that way.
Now if the spread is higher up you could always make some kind of brace possibly from right above the upper control arm mounts, make sure it has a good arch to clear your engine.
The best thing i could tell you is to use your imagination, take some measurements and pictures of any area's you may need to modify then sit down with a pencil and some paper and you will surprise yourself with what you could come up with, there are so many products out there that could help you achieve what you are looking to do.
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Re: Need help with front end alignment

Postby rtm » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:13 pm

monzajer wrote:Bob, I don't know, maybe I'm an idiot or somethin, but I could swear there was something, like moving the ball joint in that made a difference. I have looked for that thread and can't find it. Sorry, man, I don't mean to mislead you. I haven't done the conversion so I can't speak from experience. I have been here for quite a while now and followed a lot of threads. I guess I'm wrong about the BJ location thing, but still...I thought for sure there was something else that needed to be done to correct the problem you are having.

C'mon, somebody must know the thread I am talking about. The guy had pics and stated he moved the BJ to help correct the alignment issue. Anybody remember this? Or AM I squirrel turds? :crazy: :oops:





viewtopic.php?f=19&t=23253&start=45

maybe?????????????IDK
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Re: Need help with front end alignment

Postby Bobrsss » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:01 pm

OK, I'm starting to figure this out. Over the years I have jacked the car up a hundred times right under the middle of the front end. A few months ago I noticed that it was starting to flex up almost into the oil pan. I bent it back down . It must have spread the lower control arms out. I guess I could take it apart and rework it and try to get it back to it's original position. Sound possible? BTW, thanks for all the help. You guys are awesome!
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Re: Need help with front end alignment

Postby monzajer » Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:05 am

rtm wrote:
monzajer wrote:Bob, I don't know, maybe I'm an idiot or somethin, but I could swear there was something, like moving the ball joint in that made a difference. I have looked for that thread and can't find it. Sorry, man, I don't mean to mislead you. I haven't done the conversion so I can't speak from experience. I have been here for quite a while now and followed a lot of threads. I guess I'm wrong about the BJ location thing, but still...I thought for sure there was something else that needed to be done to correct the problem you are having.

C'mon, somebody must know the thread I am talking about. The guy had pics and stated he moved the BJ to help correct the alignment issue. Anybody remember this? Or AM I squirrel turds? :crazy: :oops:





viewtopic.php?f=19&t=23253&start=45

maybe?????????????IDK



YES!YES!YES! rtm, THANK YOU! That's what I am talkin' about! ...You are my hero! :hail: :woohoo: Now I can stop the dementia meds. :dance: :dance: :dance:

Thanks again!

Happy days!

cheers, jer :mrgreen:
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Re: Need help with front end alignment

Postby Bobrsss » Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:04 pm

Thanks for all the help. I guess the next thing to do is put it up on the rack and see what can be done.
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