Going back together...

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Going back together...

Postby Shortcutsleeping » Mon May 18, 2009 12:59 am

My 1978 Monza runs in the "ITA" class for the SCCA and it's been on the back burner for a few years when I jumped up to GT1 class. Now, I'm putting the car back together and getting all my spares organized and will likely put it on the market since owning two race cars really isn't in the budget.

Some pics:

Image

Image

More of the story:
http://www.witchdoctormotorsports.com/ch135.htm


Also rallied a Monza for a few years:
Image

Image

The build for the rally car: http://www.witchdoctormotorsports.com/ch21.htm


Cheers,
Costas
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Re: Going back together...

Postby hammerdown7 » Mon May 18, 2009 12:49 pm

Costas,

You've done some neat things. What happened to the IMSA body panels off the rally car? What have you done to the '78 suspension? Do the ITA rules let you run a 350 SB?

Dick
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Re: Going back together...

Postby rpoz-29 » Mon May 18, 2009 1:33 pm

Post some pictures of Scratcher. Most of these guys have never seen it.
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Re: Going back together...

Postby Shortcutsleeping » Mon May 18, 2009 11:08 pm

Thanks Dick! Yeah, it has been a fun ride! Life is entirely too short to not pursue some adrenalin!!

The imsa kit was sold to a guy in California, the backup imsa kit went to a guy in the Dallas area.

The 78 *rear* suspension uses stock lower arms, stock panhard and torque arm, koni's and a softer rear spring. The *front* suspension uses stock upper and lower arms (I'd swapped upper arms to gain more castor when running bias ply tires and therefore got more neg camber as the wheel was turned...but I swapped them back when I went back to radials) very stiff front springs and konis and a stout front sway bar. Brakes are stock, but with porterfield R4 pads and a good ducting job on the front. The deep front air dam keeps the motor running cooler and also keeps the front end down on the highspeed turns.

Sadly, the ITA rules make me run the 3.8, but to be honest I'm out there with similar powered cars...and they allow headers and carb/timing mods. So I've got hooker super comp equal lengths (coated) to a trick y-pipe flowmaster and a dump...and a SERIOUS rochester 2gc modded for holley jets. Power is awesome since the car isn't too heavy. They used to only allow you to run the same diameter wheels but up to 7" wide and that was the monza's weakest link. Now, all ITA can run 15" wheels (x7) and that has totally put the monza where it needs to be. A 225.50.15 gives me the height to put the suspension in the sweet spot for ground clearance and for angles and the car works VERY well like this.

Fun vid of a monza winning a rally...lots of pics and in-car and such.
http://www.youtube.com/user/WitchdocMot ... E&hl=en-GB

and lastly, Scratcher. Evil mother-frakking car. To put it into perspective it can weigh (no ballast) as little as 2300 lbs and has 14" wide fronts tires and 14.5" wide rears. 13" rotors on all four corners with 6 piston calipers each. A new Z06 is pretty much the king of the hill and takes 7.5 seconds to get from 60mph to 120mph and the car will run a 11.5 second quarter mile. Scratcher covers 60-120 in easily under 5 seconds. It is one supidfast car. Jerico trans so you dont use the clutch if you're in a hurry. Dry sump oil system. 9" detroit locker (floater). Etc etc.

Image

Cheers!

Costas
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Re: Going back together...

Postby mldeolde » Tue May 19, 2009 1:06 am

not exactly you grocery getter.HUH...................... 8)
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Re: Going back together...

Postby monzamess » Tue May 19, 2009 9:32 am

I'm pretty sure if you squint just right you can see a couple of car seats and Wal-Mart bags in the back... :)
Dennis
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Re: Going back together...

Postby hammerdown7 » Tue May 19, 2009 9:38 am

Another question or two, where are you running on the banks? What size front bar on the Monza and no bar on the rear?

Dick
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Re: Going back together...

Postby Shortcutsleeping » Tue May 19, 2009 10:04 pm

Dick,
The picture of Scratcher is at TWS past s/f and starting to drop into T1. It is a roadcourse in/out of the oval, so we don't use the nascar part of the track except the 'straight' (it's curved actually) between Nascar4 and Nascar1.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 4408864175 Scratcher at VIR...single pass but crank the volume.
Youtube has some also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GPwweQt7Qg

The ITA monza has a 1" front bar IIRC (don't need a lot of bar if you have a lot of spring!) and you are correct, no rear bar. I've run the small rear bar, but it still was a bit tailhappy and so we pulled it off and went faster and it felt better. Rear konis are almost on full soft and the fronts are on 3/4 stiff.

Know anyone interested in a nice roadrace Monza? :D

Cheers,

Costas
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Re: Going back together...

Postby hammerdown7 » Tue May 19, 2009 10:43 pm

Car sounds and looks great, flat through the corners and quite neutral. TWS is a twin of Michigan International but I don't know if the road courses are the same. VIR, I've watched a friend run a couple of weekends there, looks like a lot of fun to run.

Unfortunately I don't know of anyone looking for an ITA car, I just re-purchased my modified IMSA Cosworth for autocrossing.

Dick
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Re: Going back together...

Postby rpoz-29 » Wed May 20, 2009 8:20 am

Costas, which build was the most difficult? I have an old ITA Starfire that was last raced in the early 90's. You sent me some information a few years ago, but I have yet to get going much on the project. I loved that rally video. PM sent regarding the Monza.
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Re: Going back together...

Postby Shortcutsleeping » Wed May 20, 2009 6:35 pm

Dick,

Thanks for the kind words....actually that vid was taken my first time at VIR and that was actually my first time past that spot as it was my first lap! I hit the brakes pretty early, but that is one FUN track. I hope to go back in July for the Grassroots Motorsports Ultimate Track Car Challenge.

Yes, TWS and Michigan are twins, but the roadcourse at TWS just ROCKS. Several high speed corners to keep you on your toes. It starts at the base of N1 and then ends up going OUTSIDE the oval and then back INSIDE to join at the base of N3 or N4 (depending on config)...the most popular is the 2.9 shown here:

Image

Dick,
By far Scratcher was MUCH more labor (and MUHC MUCH more cash) intensive. The ITA car was just a blown motor car and I put in an autocross motor. I ended up changing the exhaust several times (love it now...now that I'm selling it...hahahahah...isnt that always the case!!) and it is hooker super comps with a twin inlet flowmaster and a dump before the axle and I just had the whole thing ceramic coated black. Pulled the power steering and put in a special-built manual box that is awesome, saves weight, eliminates the chance for leaks and also does not rob horsepower...and it cleans up the engine bay as now there is only an alternator (and a 1-wire at that). Rewired the whole car (i hate 'every-wire-is-white' wire jobs) when I was chasing an electrical gremlin, but the big change was when they made 15" wheels legal and I could put the ride height back in the sweet spot and have bigger contact patch. The 225.50.15 on a 15x7 is just perfect. I have two sets of lightweight steelies and a heavy set for rains.
Scratcher needed a motor and a trans and to fab an entire exhaust system and a front swaybar and some body fitment stuff and paint and..and.....and....ug. But Scratcher will flat out haul the mail and I love it.

Cheers,

Costas
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Re: Going back together...

Postby hammerdown7 » Thu May 21, 2009 12:33 am

I don't know if you have been to MIS but the Texas road course looks very similar. I was at the first TransAm race in '69, Donahue, Parnelli Jones and a whole host of others I can't remember without a program! They ran the road course clockwise. It doesn't get used any more, at least not for any major road course races.

Dick
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Re: Going back together...

Postby Shortcutsleeping » Thu May 21, 2009 2:05 am

More Monza Madness!!! Very close to firing it up.
http://www.witchdoctormotorsports.com/ch139.htm

Dick,
I've not been fortunate enough to go to MIS, but you can go to maps.google.com and find MIS and then click on 'satellite' and see the roadcourse. It also has a version that goes outside the oval and looks like it would be a BLAST to drive, but it is very different than TWS's version. Maybe they'll bring it back!!!

Cheers!

Costas
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Re: Going back together...

Postby 92turbogtz » Thu May 21, 2009 3:13 am

Shortcutsleeping wrote:Image


I'm drooling. I absolutetly love the stance!

Shortcutsleeping wrote:The 78 *rear* suspension uses stock lower arms, stock panhard and torque arm, koni's and a softer rear spring. The *front* suspension uses stock upper and lower arms (I'd swapped upper arms to gain more castor when running bias ply tires and therefore got more neg camber as the wheel was turned...but I swapped them back when I went back to radials) very stiff front springs and konis and a stout front sway bar. Brakes are stock, but with porterfield R4 pads and a good ducting job on the front. The deep front air dam keeps the motor running cooler and also keeps the front end down on the highspeed turns.

...A 225.50.15 gives me the height to put the suspension in the sweet spot for ground clearance and for angles and the car works VERY well like this.


I have so many questions... Please bare with me. :D

Just so I understand, the ride height is stock and the only modifications to the suspension is stiffer front springs, weaker rear springs, heavier front bar, smaller rear bar, Koni's and a 5 lug conversion?

I thought they stopped making Koni's for H-body's many years ago... What springs did you end up going with? Would you be willing to share the specs? Did you go with the 5 bolt/S10 conversion? the Porterfield pads provided enough fade free stopping power on stock brakes? what's the wheel brand and specs for the wheels?

I used to autocross my Sunbird in the 80's and I installed a set of Koni's and Quickor sway bars with 1 coil cut from the stock springs to lower the car. It still has the original Koni's and after market bars on it, and once I get some funds together, I want to update the suspension and make it better if possible.
Image
Alex
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78 Formula Sunbird - Sold :(
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Re: Going back together...

Postby hammerdown7 » Thu May 21, 2009 8:25 am

Alex,

I'm not trying to answer all your questions for Costas but maybe one. I think the car is running stock brakes and 4 lug wheels, I don't think ITA rules allow you to change the brakes.

I too bought a set of Quickor sway bars back in 1980. They were engineered right and worked well for autocrossing my Cosworth powered Monza, 1 1/4 front, 1 inch rear with stock springs cut 1 inch. Sound familiar? Costas' front springs must be much stiffer then stock but I'm surprised he didn't use a rear bar.

I've only done laps at Waterford Hills north of Detroit, a tight 1 1/2 mile course and haven't taken any real high speed corners, maybe that's the difference.

Dick
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