400 motor...practical for H body?

[DENCOUCH]

Hey fellas,

Okay, I may be in a position to pick up a poncho 400 for my Sunbird. I have heard that a v8 was factory in 1979. My little Sunbird is a '76 and I am wondering if I could pop the 400 in instead of a sbc. I really would like to keep it ALL Pontiac if possible.

Can anyone help me with this?

Thanks!

[chevyart]

hey dencouch. car wont know the difference if you put in a sbc 400 cu in. you probably will get twice the power for half the price if you use a chevy engine chevy art

[cjbiagi]

I think the bigger question is how easy (or difficult) is it to install a Pontiac 400. While the factory installed SBC in H body's there was never a Pontiac V8 installed. So you have to deal with general fit, engine and frame mounts, exhaust, oil pan, starter clearance and so on. Lot's of variables from the Chevy V8. So, anyone done this swap?

[res0o7eb]

hey dencouch. car wont know the difference if you put in a sbc 400 cu in. you probably will get twice the power for half the price if you use a chevy engine chevy art

You know nothing about Pontiacs!

Dencouch,
Dare to be different. A Pure Pontiac Sunbird would be a noble achievement.
We have a long-running thread on the Pontiac V-8 in a H-body, although it is mainly for street-driven cars (since you posted this in Drag racing). Check my signature for a link to it.
There have been a few drag racers with a Pontiac V-8 in their Astre or other H-body.

[DENCOUCH]

hey dencouch. car wont know the difference if you put in a sbc 400 cu in. you probably will get twice the power for half the price if you use a chevy engine chevy art

You know nothing about Pontiacs!

Dencouch,
Dare to be different. A Pure Pontiac Sunbird would be a noble achievement.
We have a long-running thread on the Pontiac V-8 in a H-body, although it is mainly for street-driven cars (since you posted this in Drag racing). Check my signature for a link to it.
There have been a few drag racers with a Pontiac V-8 in their Astre or other H-body.

Thanks for the reply,and please don't think ill of me, but it sems that the "Pontiac V8 in an H-body" is too short on substance. It would better be served as an article on the Pontiac 301, and it's merits as a V8.

I did manage a few tidbits (Like which tranny will bolt up), but nothing about mounts, header clearances, steering issues, hood clearance issues, the stuff that will present issues to one attempting this swap.

And I believe that this would be a moral swap for a bracket racer... a Pontiac powered Pontiac!

Just too little to go with, and I have a seller waiting for me to get back to him as we speak.

At least I know which tranny I need, and I believe that is a start.

Thanks anyways.

[Fastmax32168]

Here is a link that may be of some help to you.
http://www.carnut.com/specs/engdim.html

[res0o7eb]

Dencouch,

Wow. No, I don't think 'ill' of you. Despite the 'lack of substance' as you correctly surmised, I did put a lot of time and effort into that thread as have other contributors. There is not much known about this swap as it really has never been done and documented. That is what I am trying to do with the help of others.
It is a lot of reading, but I did put an index up-front with what is there and what is still needed, plus there is a 'disclaimer' about the 301.
I had intended to do the swap a long time ago, but life gets in the way, and I have many other interests.

99.9% of those doing a V-8 swap into an H-body put a small-block Chevrolet V-8 in it whether racing, street, or show. If you need to build your bracket racer quickly and get racing next spring(or sooner) then I would suggest you put a SBC in it. You'll get answers to any questions from the very knowledgeable members here.

The Pontiac V-8 swap can wait until your thoughtful questions have answers.

[DENCOUCH]

Thanks for your assistance Tom, I honestly appreciate everything you have done, and I salute you and others out there that care enough to document this knowledge for "literally the world" to use.

As the dice have been tossed, I reside in Salem, Oregon, and I don't know if this is a good thing or bad. I spent the majority of my time in Hotrodville (Los Angeles), and spent way too many hours to count at Lion's Drags strip. A person can get anything that they wish in Southern California, and building a decent car is not an issue... NEVER. But I now live in Oregon, and Oregon is different.

The mind set here is that we should burn trees to power our cars, but since that would be destructive to our forests, perhaps we should all bicycle instead. To a Southern California boy, it makes perfectly good sense to ride my bike in the rain. Did I mention that it rains in Oregon?

Automotive machinists believe they are like Gods, and they price accordingly... but don't expect anything other than pushing pins from pistons, nor decking the block using anything other than the oil pan rails for reference. I hope you can see what I am up against. One last item of note: I believe that there is a law on the books that states; Pontiacs shall be crushed and melted down when turned over to salvage. I have been waiting and pouring over craig's list looking for a Pontiac motor. I found one, and the guy wants but $200. for it I called him and it is an older geezer (like me) and he says that he took it out of his son's firebird when the son wrecked it. The motor has been in his shed, & the son (long ,moved out of home) has shown no interest in wanting to come & get it. Time is my quandary, and not on my side. I might miss a good deal because I am not smart enough to know a simple little fact like if this motor will work or not.

I poured over your board and postings today and went through every posting for help, afraid that someone else is going to snag that motor. I have been in email contact with this guy, and he agreed to give me a day or so to think about it. So what I have now is a day or so to figure it out.

It makes such great sense to me to have my Pontiac ALL PONTIAC! This would be a win for sure. Always loved them and never really thought much about ever owning one again, but here I am. I have plans that this will be only a toy, and set aside for our all-too-short drag season.

I am 60 years old, suffering from indecision, and I am sitting here with brain seizure while time passes away.

I just might miss this one, because of some little fact I do not know. The clincher will be later on in the future if I find out that it is a no brainer swap!

Thanks Tom, I appreciate your help, as well as the help of others.

You guys are a good crew!

[73astregt]

for 200.00 id snag that motor hands down if its good. we have a member here that has a caddy motor in his monza, if he can wedge that monster in a monza, a pontiac motor should fit an astre! it might take some enginuity but should work. if not you can always sell the motor and go with a small block chevy.(heck they claim a big block chevy is easier to work on in an h body than a small block)

[chevyart]

hey dencouch. for 200 bucks, just get the engine and try to do it. if you think about it too long, then you know the old say analysis leads to paralysis and you wont do it good luck chevy art. ps im the guy who said get a chevy engine for your car because i am a chevy guy. if you are a pontiac guy then go for it art

[DENCOUCH]

Okay Tom,

I bought the motor today. I spoke to my wife about it, and she told me to go ahead and get it, and it would be my Birthday present. Kewl wife, that is for sure.

I am believing that this is going to put me in a position, and create a situation that perhaps, we shall discover exactly what it takes to get this job done. I suspect that I shall be facing issues with headers, steering and perhaps the starter, but we shall see.

Next stop, rear suspension.

Thanks guys for the moral support. I am convinced that staying with Pontiac will be of importance later on down the road. What the heck, building it is almost as fun as driving it, no?

Thanks!

[57pickup]

Needs 3 Dueces and a 4 speed . Ooops just dated myself.

[72 SS PNL]

, 3 duces and 4spd should be on a 421SD

[mldeolde]

i'm not sure but i belive that the pontiac 400 is more based on thier big block engines that the sbc 400. if that is the case why not build a HD 455 cu in poncho and be done with it..........

[72 SS PNL]

all pontiac V8's are all pretty much the same size , there was never really a small/big block like ford and chevy used