Made a couple passes @ test and tune

Moderator: Moderators

Made a couple passes @ test and tune

Postby Greybeard » Sun Jul 03, 2016 3:01 pm

Bremerton raceway was running test and tune Fri nite, and I was bored so I drove the 70 odd miles to do a few passes. The car had never been on track in my possession so it was well scrutinized. A firewall hole, lack of battery switch "on/off" tag, and an old "Bell 500" hat were my only issues. One of the tech guys loaned me a proper hat and I made a few try's before calling it a day and driving back home.
1st pass: I drove around the w/box and did a couple churpies and staged shallow. It broke loose at first hit, I peddled it, shifted to 2nd and got loose again(very!)and aborted it. 60' was a dismal .246, 1/8th in 10.25, and trapped @65. My reaction time was so bad I could have left a light earlier, lol. The car needs a right rear airbag is the only thing I learned from that run.
2nd pass: around the w/box again, staged shallow. About 2g on the convertor, and knocked a full second off my reaction time so I may have left better. When I felt it spin I short shifted second, and went to full throttle. Didn't help as it went full apeshit and I shifted to 3rd and peddled to straighten out, then went full throttle. All this happened by the 60' mark. The 60' was an even 2.500. 1/8th-9.39@86.17 and 14.1@ 109. Was feeling a faint (lean)surge after the 1/8 mile and I didn't run it out the back. I was low on fuel so I don't know if that contributed. It's got a Holley blue pump, and a clean filter. Will be taking a look at the power supply to the pump today to assure I haven't a 'choke point' in the power supply. I rewired my fan and used a relay instead of what the previous owner had done and the fan nearly doubled rpm. I guess it didn't like the 6' of #18 wire running through a $2 RadioShack toggle.
Last run: same prestage routine. 60ft- 2.34, and did the 1/8th in 8.67 @ 89.3. I left on part throttle, got into 2nd before I went to wot. Just past the 8th it layed down so I lifted, checked my gauges, and drove on through with a 13.51@ 88.01.

What I learned: the sumbitch needs an airbag. Needs much more than bfg TAs. I'm sa-low at the lights. I need to fill my tank before I get to the strip. And oh, the sumbitch needs an airbag. Although this is a sweet runner with a nice sound, it gets a bit tiresome running 3200rpm for 70 miles there and 70 miles back. The route is mostly 2 lane with few places to pass and lots of traffic. An od would have been nice.
Last edited by Greybeard on Sun Jul 03, 2016 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1937 Chev 2dr sedan
1966 Chevy El Camino (daily driver w/300K miles)
1966 Chevy V8 Corvair https://greybeard.shutterfly.com
1972 Vega GT
1985 Corvette
1999 Safari Sahara 30' with Cat 330
1999 Jeep Cherokee 'toad'
Next: 1964 289 slabside Cobra, LS525 power
User avatar
Greybeard
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:48 am
Location: Sequim, Washington


Re: Made a couple passes @ test and tune

Postby HenryJ » Sun Jul 03, 2016 3:27 pm

Sounds like a productive testing :) Fun fun . Thanks for sharing :)
"Speed doesn't kill, suddenly becoming stationary does." - Richard Hammond
"Speed is just a matter of Money - How fast do YOU want to go?"-Mechanic from Mad Max-
If at first you don't succeed - Don't take up Skydiving!
User avatar
HenryJ
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:52 pm

Re: Made a couple passes @ test and tune

Postby Monza Harry » Sun Jul 03, 2016 9:04 pm

The "Tee Shirt" says and I quote "A bad day at the track is better than a good day at work!" And you didn't have a bad day Greybeard! Sounds like you learned some things about your car and had some fun! :burnout: :burn: :hob: :dance: How long did it take to wipe that silly smirk off of your face? :D Harry
I'm not a hoarder I'm a preservationist 78 Monza Spyder (Soon To Be 2+2 with Spoilers)
User avatar
Monza Harry
 
Posts: 2183
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:50 am
Location: Windsor ON Canada

1978 Chevrolet Monza 2+2

Re: Made a couple passes @ test and tune

Postby Greybeard » Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:50 pm

The smirk is still there a little. I'm a little worried about how to get the pucker mark out of the seat, lol. Boy that sucker likes to turn around on you quick with street tires. Looking forward to some Mickey Tompsons and an airbag. A little concerned about rpm through the traps once it's going straight and hooking up. I glanced at the tach during the second run as I approached the traps and I swear it was @ 6500. I haven't much room there with my hydraulic roller, even with the behive springs.
1937 Chev 2dr sedan
1966 Chevy El Camino (daily driver w/300K miles)
1966 Chevy V8 Corvair https://greybeard.shutterfly.com
1972 Vega GT
1985 Corvette
1999 Safari Sahara 30' with Cat 330
1999 Jeep Cherokee 'toad'
Next: 1964 289 slabside Cobra, LS525 power
User avatar
Greybeard
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:48 am
Location: Sequim, Washington

Re: Made a couple passes @ test and tune

Postby Smiley » Mon Jul 04, 2016 1:33 am

what gear ratio in the rear end ?
Last edited by Smiley on Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Smiley
 
Posts: 676
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:50 am

Re: Made a couple passes @ test and tune

Postby Greybeard » Mon Jul 04, 2016 2:48 am

The diff is a Ford 9". The gear is either a 3.7, or 3.73-1. The tires were 26.1" tall when they were new. A tad less than that now :D I'm assuming I'm still getting a couple, three hundred rpm slippage in the TC in high gear at the traps. It's pretty loose. When I'm cruising @ 3000 and hit the throttle it'll go right up to 4500.
Maybe someone can chime in here. When I made that 2nd pass, I was in high gear from the 60ft on. Since I was on the convertor for a long time I'm sure I heated the fluid pretty badly. Will the hot fluid lose viscosity and cause even more slippage in the convertor. I'm using a synthetic tranny fluid and it'll do better, but looking back that quite a hit for it to take.
1937 Chev 2dr sedan
1966 Chevy El Camino (daily driver w/300K miles)
1966 Chevy V8 Corvair https://greybeard.shutterfly.com
1972 Vega GT
1985 Corvette
1999 Safari Sahara 30' with Cat 330
1999 Jeep Cherokee 'toad'
Next: 1964 289 slabside Cobra, LS525 power
User avatar
Greybeard
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:48 am
Location: Sequim, Washington

Re: Made a couple passes @ test and tune

Postby Smiley » Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:07 am

With the 26" OD limit on rear tires I would go down a bit on the rear end ratio to the 3.00 to 3.25 range.
If you are still changing it to a Muncie 4 speed, you can get an M22 built from all new parts with wide ratios and even a .86 overdrive.
71 to 73 Muncies were fine spline and 3/4" longer than the early ones.
Super T10's can still be had new with a 2.88 or 2.64 first gear.

An L88 flywheel will fit in a Monza bellhousing and reduce wheel spin :th:
User avatar
Smiley
 
Posts: 676
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:50 am

Re: Made a couple passes @ test and tune

Postby chevyart » Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:13 am

greybeard. buy some 26" in slicks and put some stop hops on there. air bag(1) preloads one side, usually right side, and when you let off at high speed the left front could unload when you let off. may not be best thing to happen. best way to tune in your traction would be with adjustable shocks and those stop hops that i mentioned. that is what i would do. PS hope your electric fuel pump is on a relay. good luck art
chevyart
 
Posts: 1849
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:00 pm

Re: Made a couple passes @ test and tune

Postby Greybeard » Mon Jul 04, 2016 12:39 pm

Hey Art,
Happy Birthday. Had the same one just a few days before you.
Back in the day, 1967 to be exact, I bought my beautiful wife a pretty little black over gold, Malibu hardtop w L79 4sp. It, like my Vega, wanted to send the backend around although with its longer wheelbase wasn't so quick about it. It took very little air in a single airbag in the right coil to make it go dead straight. My wife raced the car in Pure Stock first, running sub 14 secs consistently. She liked the racing, but wanted the sound and fury of a proper race car. So shield and strap, headers and gears, and a set of the just released M&H 7" wrinkle walls for stock classes she went racing. The little 327 at 350hp had to run with the big dogs, and run it did. Picking both front wheels 2-4 inches, it left dead level and straight as an arrow. Wheelies were rare in the stock classes and a reporter for National Dragster caught a great pic for the paper. She "treed" the national record holding 427 BIscayne once and he was in tears putting his car on the trailer. Pretty embarrassing, that.
I degress. Its a problem that came with all those birthdays. I like the bag because they are instantly adjustable, up or down. Nothing permanent about them, with a convenient line you can make changes without crawling under the car. And then, ssssss, the preload is gone and you drive home. Oh, and I do have the stop hops. You can do the same thing with shock rates, but you have to crawl under the car, which I'm loath to do like I did 50 years ago, and then change 'em back or you'll feel it driving around.
Last edited by Greybeard on Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1937 Chev 2dr sedan
1966 Chevy El Camino (daily driver w/300K miles)
1966 Chevy V8 Corvair https://greybeard.shutterfly.com
1972 Vega GT
1985 Corvette
1999 Safari Sahara 30' with Cat 330
1999 Jeep Cherokee 'toad'
Next: 1964 289 slabside Cobra, LS525 power
User avatar
Greybeard
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:48 am
Location: Sequim, Washington

Re: Made a couple passes @ test and tune

Postby Monza Harry » Mon Jul 04, 2016 6:55 pm

Smiley wrote:With the 26" OD limit on rear tires I would go down a bit on the rear end ratio to the 3.00 to 3.25 range.
If you are still changing it to a Muncie 4 speed, you can get an M22 built from all new parts with wide ratios and even a .86 overdrive.
71 to 73 Muncies were fine spline and 3/4" longer than the early ones.
Super T10's can still be had new with a 2.88 or 2.64 first gear.

An L88 flywheel will fit in a Monza bellhousing and reduce wheel spin :th:

The only problem with them now is that you end up with a 3+1 speed as your over drive is a reversed 3rd and then you have to modify your linkage as well or develop a new shifting strategy. But that is a real solution for a mostly street/less strip car. And this was done for "Numbers Matching" cars to make them able to cruise without the scream of the engine at highway speeds, also an excellent fit for that. Here is another solution [I LOVE spending other peoples money! :twisted: ] I found this while looking for a "Doug Nash" for you. Harry http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Richmond-Gear-70 ... A7&vxp=mtr And a Basket case: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Doug-Nash-5-spe ... 8o&vxp=mtr
I'm not a hoarder I'm a preservationist 78 Monza Spyder (Soon To Be 2+2 with Spoilers)
User avatar
Monza Harry
 
Posts: 2183
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:50 am
Location: Windsor ON Canada

1978 Chevrolet Monza 2+2

Re: Made a couple passes @ test and tune

Postby Smiley » Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:03 am

All have to do is flip the 3-4 arm on the side cover to keep the normal shift pattern.
.86 is not a huge overdrive but it is an option to consider if getting a new trans anyway.
The thing some don't like is added friction to get the overdrive VS 1:1 4th gear where the mainshaft is locked solid.
the new options I like are the M22 wide and extra wide ratios available now : 2.56 or 2.98 first gear so you can run a lower rear end ratio
So you can have the rock crusher gear angle with wider ratio choices.

I have a 1973 wide ratio M20 Muncie and a 3.31 rear end gear now, when I had a 4.11 I could leave the stop lights in 2nd gear no sweat.
I also had a mild 350 V8 4 barrel with a 3.08 with 26" tires it was Nice for the street.
When converting from a TH350 I would get an early Pre 71' Muncie M20 or M21 so the driveshaft length and the yoke spline be the same as the TH350.

New Muncie Gear Ratios
from 5speeds.com

Muncie Model Ratio Chart
M20 2.52 1.88 1.46 1.00
M21 2.20 1.64 1.28 1.00
M22 2.20 1.64 1.28 1.00
M22W-DS 2.56 1.88 1.37 1.00
M22W-DS-STD 2.56 1.75 1.37 1.00
M22W 2.56 1.75 1.37 1.00
M22X 2.20 1.51 1.17 1.00
M22Z 2.98 2.04 1.47 1.00
SPEC-25 2.20 1.64 1.28 1.00
SPEC-25X 2.20 1.51 1.17 1.00
A-SEDAN 2.56 1.90 1.37 1.00
User avatar
Smiley
 
Posts: 676
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:50 am

Re: Made a couple passes @ test and tune

Postby Greybeard » Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:59 am

Taking the car for a run down the strip might have been a mistake. It creates a want of things to cure the ills that manifested them selves as problems. I knew going in that it had severe traction problem. However, now I want them fixed and find myself shopping for stuff I don't need for cruise night, or Cars and Coffee. Mickey Thompson tires, spacers to move the tires out because the section width is more. Laying awake at 3 am thinking about: should I put the msd back? Took it off to clean up the engine compartment and "it idles just fine,thank you". Change carbs? Got a new quick fuel in the box. Change intakes? Have a Barry Grant aeroram on the shelf. Maybe I should put the Edelbrock STR-10 crossram on? Naw, prolly no better than a single carb. Shop for airbags on e-bay. Maybe it's time to get the the Inovate o2 stuff to sort out the carb. Shop e-bay. Maybe I should change to a full manual valve body? What about a t-brake? Doesn't have line lock yet! Shop. If I put the msd back, I can use it to light my oil pressure light for a shift light. Ya, that'll work. Maybe put one of those Cree led bulbs in there so it'll really light up. What if it won't hook with the Mickeys. Glide? Play with the advance curve to soften the throttle response? Slow down the carb opening up. 5:00am. Alarm goes off. Make coffee and look through Summit.
If there is a silver lining in this cloud, it's that I'm temporarily off the "build another motor" kick I was on. Even thought about going all alloy on the sucker. Found a Brodix block for 2grand under retail. That caused the 3:00am deal. 350? 355? 377? 383? 400? 406? 421? 427? 434? How about heads? Shit! Can't harness the power I got.
Well, shower time.
Thanks for listening :-)
1937 Chev 2dr sedan
1966 Chevy El Camino (daily driver w/300K miles)
1966 Chevy V8 Corvair https://greybeard.shutterfly.com
1972 Vega GT
1985 Corvette
1999 Safari Sahara 30' with Cat 330
1999 Jeep Cherokee 'toad'
Next: 1964 289 slabside Cobra, LS525 power
User avatar
Greybeard
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:48 am
Location: Sequim, Washington

Re: Made a couple passes @ test and tune

Postby Monza Harry » Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:51 pm

Grey Beard if you peruse the "Project Journals" you will quickly see that your "malady" isn't unique! And that is the ones that have made a running journal of their thoughts, then there are those like myself start on car, see some new ... [doesn't matter it was just a passing fancy]and the project is waylaid until some new thing distracts us. I have had at least one H-Body since 1982 [Feb] and haven't driven one more than 5 miles since 1983 [Sept.]! So at least your distraction is from the drivers seat! Harry :D :)
I'm not a hoarder I'm a preservationist 78 Monza Spyder (Soon To Be 2+2 with Spoilers)
User avatar
Monza Harry
 
Posts: 2183
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:50 am
Location: Windsor ON Canada

1978 Chevrolet Monza 2+2

Re: Made a couple passes @ test and tune

Postby BadBowtie » Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:58 pm

Sounds like a normal night/day for me. Big vote to get a wideband, its a huge help for tuning and lets you figure out whats going on inside the engine quickly. I like the AEM one because its simple and reliable. Best bet is to get it tuned right so you can work with a healthy engine, get it reliable and enjoy it. Track tires are nice if you have the time to go out on weekends and want to see what the car can actually do, last time I went out I did similar times with a 2.6x-2.8x 60 foot spinning well past that, while fun it isn't fast. I never had an issue with just a good dizzy. As far as intakes go I am running an STR-10 Crossram so I think that's a great idea but I might be biased, however with old intakes you need to watch out for the intake ports being too small to fit on newer or ported heads, that was a surprising issue to have. A lot of those choices like a full manual valve body or trans options depend on if you want a wicked street car or a streetable race car, its not too hard to go too far sometimes :lol:
James

1975 Vega GT 350 sbc, STR10 crossram w/dual 390CFM Holleys, M21 4-speed, Hurst shifter and ford 9"
User avatar
BadBowtie
 
Posts: 797
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:20 am

1975 Chevrolet Vega GT

Re: Made a couple passes @ test and tune

Postby T-FATTY » Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:28 pm

Just sell me your problematic vega, money saved and sound sleep! :bump:
YES I accept paypal donations...
T-FATTY
 
Posts: 688
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:46 pm
Location: Somerset, Mass.

Next

Return to Drag Racing

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

     
cron