TPI Setup

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TPI Setup

Postby jdandboo@hotmail.com » Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:59 pm

Anybody played with one in an h-body-i just got in a 93 firebird and cant seem to find any info on this setup
Need to move fast before the owner discovers what i've been hiding!!!
John
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Postby v8astregt » Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:10 am

First off, 93? Firebird, or Trans Am?

The TPI was used in the 3rd gen F-bodies, from 85-92 if I remember correctly.

93 was the first of the new bodystyle, which if it is a Trans-Am, it had an LT1, which was essentially a "tuned-port", but it is not referred to as TPI like the 85-92 setup. The biggest difference is that the TPI has 8 visible runners, versus the LT1 just having one long plenum. I like the looks of the TPI better than the LT1.

Collin, chime in if you will. You're the expert.
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Postby ColinOpseth » Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:19 am

Yes, TPI was used from 85-92 although there are some major differences. First, different fuel injectors were used depending on the engine size: 305 engines got 19lb/hr and 350cid used 22lb/hr.

1985 was a one-year only setup because it used a digital MAF. Crappy setup. Stay away unless you just keep the TPI setup and go speed density.

1986-1989 were all MAF.
1990-1992 were all MAP systems.

The 1993 is similar to a 90-92 TPI system in that it is batch-fired OBD-I. You can tune it with a Moates.net tuning kit.

The LT1 is not TPI. It's VERY different. The LT1 doesn't have a conventional distributor. Instead, it uses an optispark which is driven off a driveshaft that extends out of the splined camshaft gear. The water pump is driven off another driveshaft that is driven off of the splined rear portion of the camshaft gear.

Your engine should be speed density which makes plumbing a bit easier. You only need a K&N style filter for the throttle body but you need to buy it from S&P because a conventional cone will not clear the water pump.

The LT1 is reverse-cooled. You cannot use a standard electric water pump. The length of the pump makes running a decent radiator a nightmare. I have found that there's a way to get a bit more clearance but it's only about 1/4". Don't expect to run this engine with front engine mounts. I gave up trying and am going carbureted.

If you have TPI/LT1 questions ask away. EFI is my thing.

Later,
Colin
'72 Vega with '93 Camaro LT1/M29 T56/12 bolt 3.31. 16" IROCs all around. Sanderson headers into duals with an H-pipe and Flowmasters. It's loud but at least it's faster than your grandma's Buick. pwned.
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Postby jdandboo@hotmail.com » Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:32 pm

Yeah,got over to look @ it today,,crank mounted distributor,,I dont wanna go thru that headache,,I just wanted a TPI setup,,not all the other bells and whistles,,,
Well,Time to cut her up,,,Looks like by the time i get to do this I'll prolly just go with a throttlebody setup,,Has anyone slapped a TBI on one of these.I dont see any problems-as long as u can mount a knock sensor.But always better to get advice from someone who's already been there
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Postby ColinOpseth » Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:22 pm

If you are using conventional mounts you won't have any problems at all. My problems arose from the use of front engine mounts.

Why not buy a TPI setup? I probably have a spare setup I can spare. You'll need to buy a new harness and injectors, though.

TBI sucks. Don't waste your time. You want a dry-intake port injection system.

Any engine can have a knock sensor mounted. It just screws into one of the block's drain plugs.

Later,
Colin
'72 Vega with '93 Camaro LT1/M29 T56/12 bolt 3.31. 16" IROCs all around. Sanderson headers into duals with an H-pipe and Flowmasters. It's loud but at least it's faster than your grandma's Buick. pwned.
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Postby v8astregt » Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:57 pm

Take my word... TBI SUCKS.
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Postby AusRs » Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:22 am

v8astregt wrote:Take my word... TBI SUCKS.

Toilet Bowl Injection is crap! for performance anyway
!!!
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Postby ColinOpseth » Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:27 am

I will reiterate. Run a TPI harness with an LT1 intake. It's a bit more involved than that but you get a wicked system.
'72 Vega with '93 Camaro LT1/M29 T56/12 bolt 3.31. 16" IROCs all around. Sanderson headers into duals with an H-pipe and Flowmasters. It's loud but at least it's faster than your grandma's Buick. pwned.
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Postby SunbirdMan » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:39 am

Will TPI fit an h-body with a/c and or a smog pump?
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Postby cosvega76 » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:47 am

A friend of mine has a '92 GMC pickup with a 350 making 500 HP with a GM 2 bbl. TBI setup. Howell Developments did the programming. I have heard that Turbo City does wonders with the Cross-Fire Injection Corvettes. It's all in your experience, I guess.

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Postby ColinOpseth » Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:40 pm

TPI is no larger than a conventional carburetor setup. It's probably a little shorter, too.

It requires not additional brackets or anything. It's just an induction setup. You need to put a knock sensor in the passenger-side block drain plug. You also put a coolant temperature sensor somewhere, usually in the water pump or intake manifold.

You run a MAF if your system is MAF, or run speed density. I prefer speed density.

We can talk more in-depth if you'd like but I have had 3 TPI Camaros and really like the setup. It doesn't flow really well, though because of the long runners (21"). If you don't plan on revving it too high it'll do fine, though.

There are options, too. Accel SuperRam is a possibility. Or the LT1 intake (with mods).
'72 Vega with '93 Camaro LT1/M29 T56/12 bolt 3.31. 16" IROCs all around. Sanderson headers into duals with an H-pipe and Flowmasters. It's loud but at least it's faster than your grandma's Buick. pwned.
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Postby SunbirdMan » Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:56 pm

Colin, what I was refering to is the TPI plenum intake location. Here's a pic of the h-body with a/c setup. This doesn't have the smog pump but it goes between the alternator and p/s pump. The TPI setups I've seen don't look like they could fit with their stock locations. With the h-body brackets I don't think you could get the ac and smog with TPI. I could be wrong so that's why I asked. Has anyone done it?
Attachments
engine1_176.jpg
courtesy of 77 Spyder
engine1_176.jpg (85.14 KiB) Viewed 1470 times
Mockup03.jpg
Here's a mock-up for my 454 TBI that shows the h-body setup better
Mockup03.jpg (208.94 KiB) Viewed 1466 times
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Postby ColinOpseth » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:10 pm

Are you using front mounts? If not, why not go with a serpentine setup, then? Use 80s smog pump and AC. The serpentine setup used will put the AC and smog pump on the passengerside and the alternator and power steering pump on the driverside.
Attachments
iroc3024.jpg
iroc3024.jpg (135.42 KiB) Viewed 1462 times
'72 Vega with '93 Camaro LT1/M29 T56/12 bolt 3.31. 16" IROCs all around. Sanderson headers into duals with an H-pipe and Flowmasters. It's loud but at least it's faster than your grandma's Buick. pwned.
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Postby jdandboo@hotmail.com » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:17 pm

Meh,Mr Bean found the Firebird today.Talk about gettin bs,,,he wants to crush it whole-unbelievable"it's got 200,000 miles on it and a bad motor-what am i going to do with it?""Well-lessee,,what could i do with the computer,-oh,,sell it!!yeah-almost forgot what i do for a living,,,and those aluminum heads???hmm???"
I told the dismantler to drop the drivetrain-I dont care what he says-I'll take care of the small parts :twisted:
John
Anyone interested in some 93 firebird 5.7 parts???About the only thing im not gonna get to save will be the wiring harness
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Postby SunbirdMan » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:49 pm

ColinOpseth wrote:Are you using front mounts? If not, why not go with a serpentine setup, then? Use 80s smog pump and AC. The serpentine setup used will put the AC and smog pump on the passengerside and the alternator and power steering pump on the driverside.



I'm not going to use TPI, but I figured if we're going to have a thread about putting TPI in an h-body, these issues should be brought up. There's no way that serpentine system would work. The h-body p/s pump is already as low as it can go. You probably can't fit a finger between the pump and the gearbox. So the alternator couldn't go on the driver's side. I also think you would have an issue with the over-the-radiator air source. You'd have to make a 90 degree turn to the pass side and that would also limit room for a/c comprssor and smog pump. I don't think you could get an alt, p/s, smog, and a/c with TPI in an h-body. Maybe three of them but custom brackets would be neccessary. If someones done it and can post pics, I'll stand corrected if I'm wrong.
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