how do I save this ?

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how do I save this ?

Postby Len » Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:45 pm

I am afraid to touch it because it does appear to be very brittle. I did remove the pieces that were left on my yellow sunbird and those were so brittle that just looking at them and they cracked so I am afraid to touch this one until I know that it will not fall apart when I take it off. In hopes that it could be used for a mold to make a fiberglass version for those who need one .

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Re: how do I save this ?

Postby 72 SS PNL » Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:58 pm

probably best to take a on car mold , then pull off

either way its gonna be a pain
first and best car owned 72 GT(changed to SS) panel wagon

pictures of the car from 86 - http://www.myrideisme.com/Garage/06_IBM_GOAT/955
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Re: how do I save this ?

Postby Len » Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:53 pm

I was thinking along the same lines but I really don't have a clue on how to do something of that nature. Any and all information would be greatly appreciated and welcomed. If I can do it the pain will be worth it as finding a replacement is turning out to be a real pain and I could use 2 of them.
So what are the steps involved ? and what will I need? I think I am capable of achieving success with help.

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Re: how do I save this ?

Postby Len » Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:59 am

Well I tried this first instead, I've never done anything like this before but I am quite impressed with the product it sanded well and is very flexible still need to fill a couple more cracks but the rest of the panel didn't fall apart like I thought it would.

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Re: how do I save this ?

Postby res0o7eb » Sat Apr 11, 2009 1:47 am

Len,

I have been thinking about your plight to remove that urethane? rear fascia. Those are rare and should be preserved. Plus it is my preferred rear-end for the 2nd-Gen H-bodies, so I thought I would try to help you figure this out.

I think you need to support it as you unbolt it and remove it from the car. I am not sure of where all of the mounting points are on this panel. Also, my suggestion may be overkill, but hopefully it will turn a light bulb with you or someone else and the 'design' can be refined, overhauled, or scrapped with a better one.

It will probably take two people to remove this:
1. Cut plywood to fit inside the taillight openings - trimmed to fit fairly close to the actual (straightened out) opening of the taillight openings.
2. Bolt the plywood panels through the taillight panels with a short section of 2x4.
3. Cut another plywood template for the license plate area.
4. Cut another 2x4 (or a 2x6 or 2x8) brace about 12" longer than the width of the rear end panel.
5. Bolt the above 2x4 to the two plywood taillight fillers and the license plate filler. Add wood between the brace and the fillers as necessary.
6. Do something similar to the bottom using the "bumper-sorber" holes/openings.
7. Apply other templates, fillers, supports, and braces as necessary making sure that all of the mounting points on the urethane fascia are still accessible.
8. At this stage all you've accomplished is bolting a bunch of wood on your car. Begin to remove the urethane bolts, screws, brackets, etc.
9. With the aid of a helper or working very carefully, begin to remove the bolts holding the wood frame to the car and prying the urethane away from the body. Start at the top and work your way around. You'll end up tilting the part and support structure from the top outward(rearward) and eventually down flat on the ground with the inner part of the urethane panel facing up. You should then be able to transport it to your garage.
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Re: how do I save this ?

Postby Len » Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:21 am

Thanks Tom
That a lot of thought you put into my plight how ever the main mounting point for these panels are 6 9/32 bolts from underneath the panel and six philips screws on top of the panel those are the easy ones. the tough ones are the sides which have 2 steel plates with 6 or 7 studs that squeeze the panel to the the angle and down portion of the car bodys side. The plate mount from the underneath inside portion of the panel studs passing through the panel and into the interior of the car. The nuts for the studs are accessed thought the spare tire area and rear speaker area and on has to be very flexible and patient to remove all the the nuts as the area is just big enough to get a 1/4" ratchet in there and get an 1/3 of a turn at a time, a real pia. Have done it twice off and once on. I am hoping that the repairs that I have done will keep this panel together as now there should be no weak points to allow it to crack in half ect. But I will still have to be very careful.
My thoughts are to remove the side plates first then the bottom and finally the top if I can get the plates to come free of the panel with out damage the rest should be a cake walk. but what to do after that ? Don't know a thing about making a mould ect.
Oh !!! yea !!!! what's a garage ????? lol don't got me one of those yet. lol

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Re: how do I save this ?

Postby res0o7eb » Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:23 pm

Len wrote: That a lot of thought you put into my plight...

Len
Heh-heh. Not much. I used to be a Tool Designer, so I had an idea and that is not nearly as big as the amount of words it took to explain it. :D
So, you need info on how to make an inexpensive mold with material and tools that are readily available to the home mechanic - I don't know much about that. But, it is an interesting project that I would like to figure out how to do.
There are some good videos on YouTube.
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Re: how do I save this ?

Postby Len » Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:19 am

me to Tom but I am not to familiar with utube can you post a couple of links showing the mold making process. I can be pretty thrifty and creative when it comes to improvisation and perhaps they will spark some ideas. Wonder how difficult it would be to make them out of a plastic type of material that being more forgiving than fiberglass. but that might be to much to ask for , for the amount that may be required .

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Re: how do I save this ?

Postby res0o7eb » Sun Apr 12, 2009 6:00 am

Not sure about making a flexible part like the original piece - there are some videos on making small parts, but here are some YouTube videos on fiberglass:

I like these from this Australian guy - speeds it up, doesn't talk, and adds text(although hard to read) explaining the materials and processes used.
How To Fiberglass - Mold Layup
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsvgaWHPMF4
How To Fiberglass - Two Part Mold Construction - #1 Flanging
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzng9HeGNPE
How To Fiberglass - Two Part Mold Constuction - #2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqHoAAulnmE

Fibre Glast 8 part series on making a fiberglass mold from an actual part - a plastic RC airplane cowling - and then making the fiberglass part from the fiberglass mold. Kind of boring, but I learned much watching the entire 8-part series:
How To Mold Fiberglass. 1 of 8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCivvXA2FVU
After this one, click the down arrow next to the "More From: fibreglast" on the right side of the YouTube webpage.

Here is a simple layup demonstration:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIM5_9Kx68I

Here is a company that was recommended in tone of the videos I watched:
http://www.fiberglassservices.com/
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Re: how do I save this ?

Postby Len » Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:41 am

Thanks Tom maybe there is light at the end of this tunnel.
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Re: how do I save this ?

Postby AusRs » Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:06 am

this is the way i would approach that repair
make an on car mold
do some sticking together with urethane (windscreen stuff)
do some plastic filler work on the car to make it as smooth as possible
get some mold release wax and wax it several times (so the glass does not stick to it ) make it as many as you want BUT 5 minimum
get some chopped strand fibreglass (heavy stuff )matting get some resin and hardener
read a little about how to mix the resin as it can go off a little fast sometimes
split the matting in 1/2 (you will know what i mean when you see the matting ) to make it thinner and lighter
then just attach the matting to the waxed areas ,build it up to maybe 4 layers of glass (ad some rolled newspaper or cardboard over the last layer ,folded to ad stiffness ),let it go off for a day or so THEN remove the part from the car
i would presume that the mold will need some reverse curves on it (impossible to remove from mold SO it has to be in 2 sections ) get some plywood and make a join at the corner (2 pieces so they can be bolted together (and unbolted to take apart ) then prepare the back surface (wax etc ) then repeat the wax etc then glass that
when its all nicely dried out split the mold and remove both parts of the oem bumper

does t hat make any sense to you ??????????????

in all honesty it is NOT hard to do ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,its just the cost involved to make a 1 off part

to produce the part off of the mold is slightly different BUT no more difficult !
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Re: how do I save this ?

Postby AusRs » Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:09 am

ohh and remember that whatever you are taking the mold off IS the finish of your product ...expect to spend at least an hour or so on the finished product before it can be primed /painted

i learned a lot making my hood scoop and would appproach it with a lot more care if i were to do it again
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Re: how do I save this ?

Postby AusRs » Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:11 am

alternate method
lay one layer of fibreglass over that panel and then remove it and work on it untill you are happy with what you have to reproduce it
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Re: how do I save this ?

Postby Len » Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:17 am

Well I started taking it off and it started to crack in the places that I had filled . So I used some drywall tape If you will to add some support to the fill in area's and another layer of filler. That allowed me to remove the panel to make repears from the inside but when I flipped it over it broke in a couple more places but still in one piece. So I cleaned the inside the best I could and went to work on using the 2 part filler and tape to strengthen the entire piece. Not quite done still have to remove the steel supports and light sockets to do behind them. But here's some pics.
Library - 136.jpg
Library - 137.jpg
Library - 138.jpg
Len
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Re: how do I save this ?

Postby Len » Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:35 am

Here are some up dates spent many hours now. After I finished re enforcing the inside of the panel I installed it on the sunbird only to have it crack in a couple of places. But not real bad. Also i found that I wasn't as good as I thought at lining up previous breaks. But I had somthing that I could actually touch with out it breaking. So I went to filling and sanding over and over and over. lol the learning curve lol. and here is where it sits now
Library - 25.jpg
Library - 24.jpg
Any and all comments are welcome.
I don"t offend easily but I do laugh a lot . lol lol Really all in put at this point is welcome as I have never done body work before and have come to realize that I probably started with one of the most difficult pieces of body going with it's multiple curves and radiuses ect. But really I had no idea of the amount of work this was going to be. I figured a few hrs and I would be done all respect to the people that do this for a living.

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