"Astre GT" What Year Is It ?

[HI WINDING MONZA]

Tom , thanks for the fixes to my post. ( I can't see that good anymore in the dark - keyboard keys ) Cant type much either

Steve , Its a longshot , the way aluminum reacts to steel ,rust = weld! ( rings to cylinders ) that it will ever turn over. Try some PB Blaster or tranny fluid instead of WD40 . WD 40 evapes too much.

Starfire 383, If only GM would let go all the HBody stuff to us, I dont know why they are hogging it , the last car was made almost 29 years ago. He might get results thru Pontiac, because they care.

Matt , my guess would be a red with white interior GT with a stick.

Doug in AZ

[Badsunbird]

I tried to get the engine to turn over again tonight but with no luck ! I took the shop vac and sucked out all the WD40 in the cylinders and sprayed "rust buster" into the cylinders and will let that soak for a day or so, an uncle of mine has suggested filling the crankcase with diesel fuel and letting it soak for a week or so. He claims that is what they used to do in "The Old Days", funny thing is, that is the second or third time someone has suggested that remedy for this problem.
Another gentleman that I work with has suggested that perhaps the crank & rods are frozen up on it and not the piston and rings. He has also suggested filling the cylinders up with diesel fuel and letting it "bleed through" the rings. IDK !
I'll probably end up pulling the engine and putting it on the stand and taking the oil pan off and see what's up on the bottom end. When I pulled the plugs out I stuck a small scope into the cylinders and I didn't seem to see any rust around the rings at all, but that doesn't necessarily mean that there wasn't any !!! Three sets most generally, correct ?

And for $50.00 PHS has all the documentation on the car, including a picture of it rolling off the assembly line. so they claim ! For another $30.00 I can get a copy of the original window sticker ! Actually for $80.00, that's not all that bad ! And also, I am now only the third owner of the car. The previous owner had it for 20 plus years, so a title search shouldn't be all that hard. Chances are pretty good that it is an original Nebraska delivered car, that was back before ebay & stuff, remember?
Can't go through Carfax.com because it isn't a 17 digit VIN #. It's only a 13 digit VIN #. I don't believe they go back past 81 if I remember right. The more documentation that I put together, the more it will be worth. Who is to say, the more scarce these cars become, the sooner it will be worth something.
There will always be "Nay Sayers" out there, that's just the way things are ! It is like finding a "Needle In A Hay Stack", even a blind dog gets lucky every now & then !!!


Thanks Everyone, I appeciate all the feedback, suggestions & helpful tips !!! Keep them coming because I listen and take EVERYTHING into consideration !!!

After all, Isn't that why we are all here ???

[cammerjeff]

Badsunbird,

Great find, as was already stated, 73 & 74 Astre's were only made for the Canadian Market. 75-77 they were produced for the US Market as well. It will be great if PHS has a pic of your car coming off the Assembly line!!!! And they might with it being an the 2nd off the CA line. As for what the GT pakage got you, it was almost the same as the Vega GT pakage.
2bbl engine
GT Dash with guages & dash pad with grab bar.
Blacked out headlight buckets
Later years came with GT badges, 75 might have got the GT strip, but I bet it was optional.
76 & 77 came with RTS that gave you front & rear sway bars.
Ralley Wheels with arrow head ceter caps (I might have 3 more of these laying around if you need them)

I see your car has the Delux interior, in cloth, & Sport mirrors.

I don't see any other options, but its hard to tell.

Thanks for posting the pic's!!!!!

[starfire383]

For what it's worth I'd probably stop messing with the original motor now.

It's one thing to lock up an all iron motor. It's another to lock up an aluminum motor with no sleeves. If the rings did rust, they've done irreperable harm to that spot on the cylinder wall. I assume this thing is just a dust gatherer under the workbench anyway.

good luck

[cos2482]

It's one thing to lock up an all iron motor. It's another to lock up an aluminum motor with no sleeves. If the rings did rust, they've done irreperable harm to that spot on the cylinder wall.

Not necessarily, the cylinder walls of the aluminum block are actually silicon as the aluminum content at the bore is etched away during original production. Silicon is harder than iron.

What I have found is that the valves will be frozen in the iron head more often during long neglected storage.

As Doug mentions, tranny fluid setting over a week or so should free any frozen rings if that would be the problem.

[spyder_xlch]

Even if something did happen that the cylinders were pitted or whatever you could always sleeve it. Maybe if it wasn't the second Astre made in 75 I'd throw a turboed ecotech in it but being it is the second Astre made in 75 I'd try to save what you can.

[HI WINDING MONZA]

More likely Steve ,its the wrist pins that froze - stuck. It happened to my 151 after it sat for 4 years even in this " nice warm dry " climate.

I'm with you on pulling it out, you can fix it better on the stand then in the car. ( you dont want to force anything)

I would get with the Cosworth guys on a source for an reputle engine rebuilder you can trust on the number matching block to get done correctly if its needed. ( experiance is very important dealing with that type of engine)

Take your time and do it RIGHT! I would treat every bolt as if it went to a one off musclecar. I believe this is a very important car and it deserves TLC! In the future it will extremely valuble. I wouldn't run off and send it to Legendary Motor Car either. It someting you can tackle yourself, but it wouldnt hurt to treat it that way either. The guy here with the restored yellow Monza ( cant remember his name, he did the rotissure thing in his garage) did an excellent correct restoration.

We are all here to help even if the smallest part is needed, Steve its in your hands. Doug in AZ

[Badsunbird]

I am definitely going to try and keep this car as original as possible, drive train included. This car may turn out to be worth something of value someday, When ? Who knows. I do believe that this car could turn out to be an important piece of automobile history as well someday. But what is really cool to me is the simple fact of how I just "stumbled" across this car. I bought it because it was a Pontiac first of all, and second, because it was of the "Vega" body style, and third, because it was a "Cool GT" like Josh's, and I was also looking for another little HotRod. There after the story just simply unfolded, reading the VIN # made me do a double & triple take, instead of getting excited about it and spouting off at the mouth, I simply posted my findings here and let all of you confirm my "supposed" suspicions. Because sure enough had I started to run my "pie hole" about it, it would have all turned out to be false! Then I really would have looked like a Dumb A#+ !
Anyways, It has turned out to be quite a finding and a heck of a story as well to go along with it. Had I been searching for something like this, I never would have found it. I'm still curious to know if this is the first "GT" or not that rolled off the assembly line. I'll have to search the Internet a little harder and see if I can't find something on the assembly plant & gate "C". Truly fascinating to just find something like this by chance, it still boggles my mind !!!

Well, If the "Rust Buster" doesn't do the trick, I will take the shop-vac and clean all of that out of the cylinders again. I'll fill them up a little ways with tranny fluid and let that soak for a week or so and see what happens, I've got nothing but time and it isn't going to hurt anything more than what it probably already has. I've got to get back to working on the Sunbird, I've been neglecting that project for some time now. I've pre-fitted the main hoop on the roll bar and need to take a little more off of it to give me space for my headliner. As soon as I get the roll bar welded up, I will be ready to get the engine & transmission installed. Time to get back to work and get somethings accomplished on that project before I jump to another !!!!

Thanks Everyone !

Doug
Josh
Matt
Jim
Jeff R
Dave
Tom
Ray
Jon
Scott
Shannon
John
Larry S
Dwight
And Everyone else, Thank You Too !



Steve

[Astre-mutt]

I would just pull the motor, and set it aside for now. Then install another 140. This will keep the value of the car because you still have the original engine, but be able to drive the car if you like. You don't want to take a chance on destroying the original engine by driving it after it has been seized up. Plus this will let you play with the new engine if you like. Definitely have a cool car there, and it sounds like your going to keep it that way. Good luck.

[bugdewde]

Diesel, or Kerosene, worked for my '77 Yamaha DT 175cc 2-stroke enduro motorcycle back around '84. Locked up solid after sitting a couple years. I tore the jug and piston off the motor and filled it with Diesel at the recommendation of my dad (a veritable genius of know-how). Soaked a couple weeks and everyday after school, I'd try to "kick" it over. Once it loosened up, I'd spin the rod with my finger until it turned nice and smoothly. Changed the Diesel in the crankcase about 4 or 5 times.
Never got it running ...... someone stole it out of our shed!

Yes, the silicon in the block is very hard. I don't know if rings would damage it or not.... but I tend to agree that if silicon is more durable than steel, the rings would suffer, not the cylinder. I'd like to try freeing up the siezed up 140 that came out of my parts car.... but the #1 cylinder looks bad. Wonder what was hard enough to score it up so bad?

siezed cylinder.JPG

Removing the head (pretty easy) would give you a good idea of what's going on in there.

siezed 140.JPG

When I took the head off this siezed up 140, I couldn't turn the cam at all..... must have siezed to the valves as mentioned before.

I would think it would be cool to get another 140 to swap in. That way, you could drive and enjoy the car a bit. I'm becoming a big 140 fan, you know?

[Badsunbird]

Does anyone know about the oil pump drive on one of these engines? Is it like a sbc and under the distributor or is it driven by some other means ???

[cos2482]

The oil pump is driven by the crankshaft at the front of the block.

[todd74]

The best solution I have found for a locked up motor is brake fluid. It doesn't take very long either. You will need to clean it out of the motor after it loosens the pistons. It is very corrosive. It is great for cleaning carbon off or pistons too. Just put the piston in a shallow pan of brake fluid and watch the carbon float away.

[spyder_xlch]

The best solution I have found for a locked up motor is brake fluid. It doesn't take very long either. You will need to clean it out of the motor after it loosens the pistons. It is very corrosive. It is great for cleaning carbon off or pistons too. Just put the piston in a shallow pan of brake fluid and watch the carbon float away.

I forgot that one. Thanks for the reminder.

[EagleFish]

Yes, the silicon in the block is very hard.

But, you are still dealing with aluminum cylinder walls - that are impregnated with silcone.

Anything can destroy the aluminum very easily - like too much heat, not enough oil, rusted and/or corroded rings, broken rings, etc., etc.

If the cylinder walls are that damaged, the piston could be history, also. It, too, is aluminum.

Just have it sleeved if the cylinder walls are too damaged to refurbish.

John (John and Richard)