Restored: what does it mean to you?

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Restored: what does it mean to you?

Postby barebonesracecars » Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:14 am

Ray's post made me think of this one.

One of my biggest pet peeves in the automotive hobby is the incorrect use of the word "restored".

Webster's defines 'restore' as "to bring back or to put back into a former or original state".

Strictly speaking, this means that if you put a 'big' cam in it, or changed the paint color, or covered the seats with lambskin, even if the car is beautifully done, the damn thing ain't restored. It's rebuilt...redone...reworked...name your adjective.

I'm not trying to degrade quality craftsmanship at any level, and maybe I'm just being anal about it, but I think it's a bit of an overstatement to say your '85 Fox-body Mustang is 'restored' with a side-oiler 427. Sorry, tain't so.

I'm sure we can get into an endless debate here. What if a car is 100% original except for the one wheel stud you broke off last year? Is it still truly 100% original? NO. Is it a classic survivor that has been maintained and restored to original? Yes...IF you replaced that stud with a GM part. (This paragraph probably is being anal....unless you've never changed the oil filter in your '33 Packard, it's not really original. But would anyone else agree here? Probably not. Not even me.)

I've seen the term "restified" used. For many of us here, that term is probably correct (although I doubt Webster's would agree yet.)

I'm not picking on anyone here, and I don't have a particular person or car in mind. Just something I've been thinking about. So you may slam me or agree with me, either is fine. Debate away!
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Postby SunbirdMan » Thu Jul 20, 2006 8:16 pm

Webster's defines 'restore' as "to bring back or to put back into a former or original state".


Can one truly restore a car? Does the paint have to come from the same 30 year old can? Does the carpet have to come off the same roll? Do the brake pads have to be asbestos? Can you use Dextron III instead of Dextron I?
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Postby ColinOpseth » Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:12 am

lol..
Semantically, you both are correct. To restore a car would require using the same materials that the car originally came with. I suppose, that would mean sanding off all of the paint and then keeping it so you could spray it right back on.

To me, a restoration is a mode of thought as much as it is a play on words. Some people spend years looking for the right bolts for valvecovers. My Dad did that on his '68 RS/SS 396 Camaro restoration. To my knowledge, every bolt on the engine should be correct.

Alas, the car is not restored. It is "restified" as Reid said. When you look at a "restified" car I suppose it should look as though it was "restored." Sorry to play on words but I think that's what you're trying to get at.

When I think about restoring a car I think about how it looked from the factory. Of course, duplicating it perfectly is impossible. Some suspension parts were dipped in paint and some were sprayed. You can never get the paint finish the same even if you tried.

So, to me, a "restoration" is an attempt to bring a car back to its former condition inasmuch as it's an attempt to "restify" it. I'm making myself dizzy. lmao

Later,
Colin
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The Chicken or the Egg????

Postby bugdewde » Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:10 am

Reid...... you're being too anal. :lol:

Agreed, "Restored" is used much too loosely. But no H-body can ever be corrrectly restored. Same as with my old VWs. We use the terms Restocustom, restomod, and restorified all the time. Completely stock appearance, but lurking beneath is a 2275 cc engine that will run 9's ....... :P

My "plan" is this:
Restore the body to it's original configuration.
Restore the interior to original configuration.
Restore exterior trim to original configuration.
Modify the drivetrain to a "better"(subjective, at best) configuration.

1. The body will never be original. Too much rust. Contemplating replacing the trunk/hatch floor area with sheetmetal because a good donor area can't be found........

2. Interior is coming from various places. Woodgrain trim, door panels, instruments, seats, plastic, steering wheel, etc all from different cars('71-'73). But the interior will look original(except for that 5 speed shifter-but who'd know?).

3. Exterior trim? Hopefully, I can include the trim from the '73 parts car. My '72 had all the trim removed as well as the little studs that hold them on. But it will look original(hopefully) but definitely not "restored".

4. The drivetrain mods(aluminum v8, 5 speed, 7.5" rear, torque arm, bigger swaybars, etc....) will have an effect on each area of the above mentioned points. The rad support opening has been "enlarged" to accept the 3 core rad. The tranny tunnel has been "modified" to accept the 5 speed shifter. The HVAC is from a '75 Monza so the "V" configured engine will fit.

So, my car will definitely NOT be "restored"....... but in the hobby, the term "restored" is generally used as a catchall, as you've plainly pointed out. I've used it in reference to my '72 and will probably continue to use it.
"Restored Appearance" may be a better term but who's got the time???? :P
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Postby greg72 » Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:22 pm

Funny thing about some Concours type restorations .... making them just like "they came from the factory" . More often than not cars from the 60's and 70's had some minor flaws when they were new. I have witnessed people haggling over "restorations" that were TOO perfect :lol:

As far as my personal feelings, I agree with what many have said in the past.
If it is a rarer model like an orginal GSX or GTO or COPO Camaro , then be careful with modifications .... the car should be preserved. If I want a modified version of one of those cars I look for a base model , a Skylark, a Lemans or a plain Camaro. Then I modify to my heart's content, make it look like one of those cars, but don't worry about altering an original.
In the end, whomever owns the car ....well.. they own it they can do as the like.

As I own my cars this is what I plan to do to them: :D

My Mirage will have the outward appearance of the original, just bigger wheels. I will be retaining the factory interior too. The drivetrain will definitely not be stock :)

My Vega well tubbing it kind of killed the original vibe....however I have been kicking around the idea of installing an original GT interior back in the car. I guess my tastes have changed since the 80's :roll:
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Postby greg72 » Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:24 pm

Funny thing about some Concours type restorations .... making them just like "they came from the factory" . More often than not cars from the 60's and 70's had some minor flaws when they were new. I have witnessed people haggling over "restorations" that were TOO perfect :lol:

As far as my personal feelings, I agree with what many have said in the past.
If it is a rarer model like an orginal GSX or GTO or COPO Camaro , then be careful with modifications .... the car should be preserved. If I want a modified version of one of those cars I look for a base model , a Skylark, a Lemans or a plain Camaro. Then I modify to my heart's content, make it look like one of those cars, but don't worry about altering an original.
In the end, whomever owns the car ....well.. they own it they can do as the like.

As I own my cars this is what I plan to do to them: :D

My Mirage will have the outward appearance of the original, just bigger wheels. I will be retaining the factory interior too. The drivetrain will definitely not be stock :)

My Vega well tubbing it kind of killed the original vibe....however I have been kicking around the idea of installing an original GT interior back in the car. I guess my tastes have changed since the 80's :roll:
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Postby barebonesracecars » Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:41 pm

Well, I agree. I think you're correct...you can't truly restore a car, in the strict sense of the word.

However, and I think most purists would mostly agree here, that a restored car is one that is put back together as closely to the way it was from the factory as common sense and available parts will allow. And about those factory markings and imperfections....I guess I'm neutral on that. If a guy wants to do it that way, I love to see it. But to do it myself? Too anal. :lol:

Personally, I would allow some latitude here, out of necessity as much as anything. I suppose I'm thinking about cars in a 'restored' class at a car show. Sunbirdman makes valid points, which I suppose was the reason I asked the question in the first place. Carpet from the original roll and asbestos brake pads? No longer available. Replace with a factory-style and color carpet, and semi-metallic brake pads? Acceptable.

12" SSBC brakes and tuck-n-roll? Not acceptable....in a resto.

My "problem" lies with the use of 'restored' in reference to a car with, for example, a 389 engine replaced with a 455; auto trans replaced with a 4-speed; Marimba Red paint changed to Starlite Black; 13" wheels changed to 15"; hood scoop where non was offered; etc. Maybe it's still in a configuration the factory offered, but it isn't restored.

Even the car mags do it, which really seems wrong to me. Then again, I get tired of the way they describe cars anyway, talking down to us as if we are all 15 year-old morons. I cancelled my subscription to Hot Rod twenty years ago just for this reason.

Greg makes a good point, too about saving cars. I've always had mixed feelings about cutting up something like, say, a Judge to make a race car. On the other hand, a complete factory-type resto is very expensive. If the car was a complete mess, missing many hard-to-find factory parts, then at least you can say the car was saved from the rust heap. Better that than nothing, I agree.


ALL OF THIS IS MY OPINION. PLEASE DON'T DRIVE OVER HERE AND BEAT ME UP. :kick:
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Postby monzaman69 » Fri Jul 21, 2006 5:28 pm

barebonesracecars wrote:ALL OF THIS IS MY OPINION. PLEASE DON'T DRIVE OVER HERE AND BEAT ME UP. :kick:


What If I want to come beat you up just for fun?? (Not implying that I actually could or would)

LOL :)

:sure:

Later,

Adam
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Postby bugdewde » Fri Jul 21, 2006 6:06 pm

Reid........ I think you hit the nail on the head.
It isn't gonna get any better, though.
Look at what the magazines are catering to nowadays...... There are some folks that like restorations..... then there are the coffee can exhaust, pimple faced, ..... oh, sorry.... then there's folks that's never even seen a '62 Cat with 8 lugs or a '78 Spyder(or Corvair for that matter), much less a '75 Cosworth.
The industry, as well as the hobby is changing. Look at all the automotive mods that are frowned upon from the 60s and 70s........ Gassers, shag carpet, curtains, disco balls, chain link steering wheels, zebra stripe interior, curb feelers, tassles, ...........barefoot gas pedals(still in my Jeep :lol: ).... you see what I mean.
Times, they are a changin'........... but the term "Restored" has been and still will be used incorrectly for a long time.
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Postby barebonesracecars » Fri Jul 21, 2006 6:06 pm

That's a pretty long drive just to whoop someone's butt just for fun, isn't it, Adam???? :think:

I figured this would be an interesting topic.
Last edited by barebonesracecars on Fri Mar 30, 2007 8:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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RESTORED????????//

Postby mldeolde » Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:49 am

DAMN, I GUESS THIS ALL MEANS I'LL NEVER BE ABLE TO "restore" MY IMSA AND GET INVITED TO PEABLE BEACH NEXT YEAR. :lol: :lol: :lol: I 'D RATHER BE INVITED TO INFINION RACEWAY ANYWAY!!!!!!!!
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resto mods- are they really restored, just modified or both

Postby mldeolde » Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:58 am

I GOT IT!!!!!!!! THERE IS A NEW CATAGORY. SAW IT ON THE SPEED CHANNELS AUCTION SHOW.....RESTO MODS- LOOKS VAUGUELY ORIGINAL BUT WITH SOME MODERN DAY TWEEKS AND SLIGHT CUSTOMIZATIONS. THERE WE GO . NOW EVERY BODY CAN BE HAPPY AND SAY THEY HAVE A RESTORED CAR!!!1 :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Postby ColinOpseth » Sat Jul 22, 2006 11:03 am

lmao you guys crack me up
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Postby Brad C » Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:22 am

barebonesracecars wrote:That's a pretty long drive just to whoop someone's butt just for fun, isn't it???? :think:

I figured this would be an interesting topic.


Yea Reid, he may be too far away but I'm only about 10 minutes from you! Just kidding...

Hey, when you going to stop out? Now would be the time as I've got the GSX El Camino in the barn for a few more weeks...
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Postby barebonesracecars » Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:53 am

Maybe this weekend. Just need to remember. Working quite a bit of OT lately.

On second thought, if you're in line to give me an a$$ whoopin', I'm not coming over. :whack: Besides, I've seen you....you're alot bigger than me. Pick on someone your own size!
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