Don't cut up that H body !

[Astre-mutt]

To make a pro street Vega. Your going to have to cut out must, if not all the floor sheet metal from the back of the drivers seat to the tail lights. Also lengthen the rear wheel openings, probably with a fiberglass pro street fender lips. For traction, and handling do a engine set back. So the firewall will be removed. Then because of the engine set back, and to gain clearance you will cutout and remove the entire trans tunnel. You know you can't have a serous pro street with out some fiberglass. So a 1 piece front end is in order. You mite as well go all the way, and get some fiberglass doors too while your at it. Oh, and lets not forget the fiberglass rear hatch. Of course the inner fenders will be removed because you won't need them with all the new cage, and lowered suspension. So you can't use a rusted hulk of a Vega with no drive train because why? You don't want to fix a few holes around the front widow? I really like pro street cars, but if your not going to make it you don't deserve it.

[Sunula66]

Interesting thread ! Considering what just happened !

[Ishiftem]

I say go ahead and cut up that H body! Starting off with a clean low mileage original is the way to go. When you think of all the cost of fixing rust, doing the interior, paint, and redoing all the trim and replacing that 80,000 mile pitted and scratched glass one would be 100s of hours and thousands of dollars ahead of the game. Not to mention you'll have a nicer finished product that won't be oozing rust from all the seams. As for cars like the cosworth, cut them up too There is very little interest in these cars. You take a really clean cosworth with....oh....lets say 30,000 miles. What's it worth? 8 grand maybe. A similar 75 nova with a 6 cylinder would be worth that and they made 10's of thousands of those. I'm always amazed to see how many cv's are for sale at any given moment considering the few made and how many have been crushed or parted out. There really is no demand. I have a cosworth that I'm "ruining" with a v8 and other mods requiring cutting it up. It was a 300 dollar pile that some one already had a v8 in. If I ever decided to do another vega It will more than likely be a cosworth with no miles on it. Why a cosworth over a standard vega with no miles? I like the interior plus it would be WAY easier to find than a standard vega being that so many people were kind enough to not drive them and squirrel them away so we could put v8's in them. The difference between a COPO Camaro and a Cosworth? The camaro has value. Don,t get me wrong, the cosworths are a neat little car. If I had extra space might get one and leave it stock just to have the contrast. Every one has an opinion on this. You can go around and save all the cars you want. In the mean time I'll cut up all the ones that I want to

[res0o7eb]

Wrong, wrong. So Wrong, shift.
1A. Comparing the value of a COPO Camaro with the value of a Vega is stupid. Yes, the relative value of a Vega compared to the value of a 1969 ZL-1 Camaro is zero. That is undisputed.
1B. A 75 6-cylinder Nova for 8,000? You are on drugs, dude.
2A. The price of the average Cosworth Vega sold today is about $4,000. Dick, president of the CVOA, may have up-to-date prices. The CVOA officially reports prices to some entity who publishes collector car prices.
2B. The interior of a Cosworth Vega is the same as a Vega GT, except the dash insert. So, your ' logic' doesn't make sense.
3. DO NOT CUT UP A LOW MILEAGE, RUST-FREE H-BODY.
There are already a million Vegas out there that have already been cut up for drag racing or whatever. Here's another one ( unfinished, what a waste): http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/1341875272.html
4. Swap in a V-8, but don't cut it up. I am amazed at how many V-8 Vegas there are for sale. Those DO have some value, but not more than $10,000.
5. Stock, low mileage, rust-free, early(71-73) Vegas also have good value - we've documented it here on H-body from recent sales on ebay. Around $8,000.
But, many, MANY of those much more desirable, early Vegas were cut up for drag racing or pro-street - I am amazed at how many there are for sale out there. Did I say that already?
6. We've discussed this many times here on H-body. So, why cut one up WHEN YOU CAN BUY ONE ALREADY CUT UP? THAT IS MUCH CHEAPER THAN STARTING FROM SCRATCH. If you are going to cut it all up, anyway, why not get one with rusty floorboards and fenders? You'll cut all of that out or replace it anyway. Yes, there may be more rust underneath.
7. You mention the Cosworth Vega. I have one that isn't pristine at all and would be a good canvas for a race car. Not much rust and you can have it for half-price - only $3995.
8. I think I will buy one of these http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/1337955934.html and swap the POS SBC V-8 for a Vega 2300, maybe a Cosworth Vega ( gotta do something with all of these engines no longer in a Vega. ).
And then post pictures of this car on several forums specific to that make and model. Maybe enter it in some car shows. I wonder what the reaction would be?
9. I laugh at people like this http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/pts/1339747581.html who think that they can sell that. The seller wanted 4X that amount a couple of months ago. Free is about top dollar for it.

[Ishiftem]

I think I'm going to find cosworth vega #0001 and make a convertible out of it. Seriously though, my point is every body is here because they like h bodys. ANY interest in these things whether you agree or not with what an owner wants to do with his or her car is a plus. I don't think there is anyone on this site who would appreciate being told what they should do with there property. Besides, the way things are going there won't be any gas left to put in these things so they'll scrap them to make more windmills

[bugdewde]

I think I'm going to find cosworth vega #0001 and make a convertible out of it. Seriously though, my point is every body is here because they like h bodys. ANY interest in these things whether you agree or not with what an owner wants to do with his or her car is a plus. I don't think there is anyone on this site who would appreciate being told what they should do with there property. Besides, the way things are going there won't be any gas left to put in these things so they'll scrap them to make more windmills

FIrst off, I'm not a purist by any means. I have owned Vegas with Buick V6 and Buick V8 swaps.... loved them. I also have a '73 that is mostly stock. Love it, too.

I tend to take the conservative side when it comes to the Cosworth, Millionth edition Vegas, '73-'74 Canadian-only Astres, C06 Astroroofs, ... or other rare models .... I'll term them "Special".

I'm all for modifications...... but when dealing with "special" cars I tend to agree only to the point that they can be easily returned to a "stock" form, for others to enjoy after you are gone. No cutting or heavy modifications..... mostly just bolt on stuff and the like.

But, to each his own......... this is America.

Astre-mutt makes a valid argument. Very well thought out and exactly what I'm trying to say.

Personally(which amounts to a hill of beans), I don't think your argument is entirely valid . I am not attacking you personally, I just want to point out a couple things you might be overlooking.
Your personal preference, as viewed as "interest" (by your own words) is not what you call a "plus" in this particular case. This is a "special" car, regardless of your views. The numbers tell the tale.

The Cosworth truely IS a limited-production, technologically-advanced piece of automotive history. For instance....
There were 3507 Cosworths made in two years versus the millions of Vegas made in a 7 year run (1,962,649 from the FAQ) .
3507 of 2 million is 0.0017
or <0.2%
.... not even a quarter of 1% made were Cosworths.
Rare, extremely rare, by any measure.

Understand, I'm not personally attacking you, I just don't believe your argument that "any" interest in H-bodies is good (in this particular case where there are more suitable, or less special, candidates) is shared by all on this board.

A true "special" car to the world ..... a piece of steel and plastic to you. Hey, it's your car.

[res0o7eb]

shift,
As I have said in other posts here on H-body, that ultimately it is your car and you can do whatever you want with it. No problem. I personally really appreciate the good fabrication skills and craftsmanship that goes into creating a better H-body - race car or street machine.
You have a Cosworth Vega that already had its engine replaced with a V-8. Have at it. Start a Project Journal if you haven't already and post plenty of pics.

Cosworth Vega 0001 is owned by GM. (Or the new GM or whatever GM has morphed in to today). The earliest Cosworth Vega known to exist is 0005 and it is a pile in a junkyard somewhere on the East Coast.

A friendly debate is good,too. You are a funny guy.

[Ishiftem]

Uncle! Uncle! As you can tell I'm having a lot of fun on this site and wish I had joined earlier! I enjoy rattling peoples cages some times. I don't take to many things personally and I hope people don't take anything I say too personally. ESPECIALLY if I say it. Just having some fun. I respect every ones opinion on this topic and hope no one ever gets discouraged about sharing their views. Thats why were here! Can I have a hug?
P.S. I thought that cv #1 was auctioned at Barret Jackson. I could be wrong.

[Dan]

I say screw it! Cut it up do what you want with it. It is yours after all.. hell I cut up cobras all the time and make real cars out of them. Not every one wants an inferior stock car, nor does everyone want a race car, different strokes for different folks. Most of them are death traps anyway.. I would rather see a car that is built the way that the owner want it to be that tells you so much about that particular owner.. A car is just a car. Tub it restore it do what ever makes you feel happy in side. I would.. Hell I cant wait to hear everyone complain when I start cutting up these mirages that I have to make them in to the car they should have been to start with

[Astre-mutt]

It's never been a issue of what you can, or can't do with your own car. Of course you can do what ever you like with your car, just don't expect everyone else to like it. It's more of question of what you really need to make what you want. For example if you want to restore a Vega GT, you would be crazy to start with a neglected empty old hull. Same for a Pro Street, why use a low mileage original? I guess it just comes down to starting with no more car then you really need.

[mldeolde]

i'd never cut or modify an H-BODY. If it was a rare Mirage ,Spyder,Cosworth etc but i might do this to anything less valuable-

[bugdewde]

Mldeolde,
I still drool over your car................

As I said before, I'm no purist. Heck, I've swapped a '77 model 5-speed into my '73 GT in favor of the weiney PowerGlide that resided there. I've kept the HEI ignition, too. Gasp, I'll eventually swap in the header and an aftermarket intake/carb one day.

Heavily modding a "special" car just seems too much for me. I guess I'm thinking too much about the "CAR" than the "PERSON".
After I'm dead and gone, and I had a "special" car, I would like to think that someone else might have the chance to drive a "special" car, too ....... Keep the "special-ness" of the car alive.

Many folks can ride around in a V8, tubbed, fiberglass/carbon fiber, lexan, Vega. But there are only a few that can ride around in a true Cosworth, with it's DOHC, 4-valve per cylinder, electronic fuel-injected, high idle, high reving 2.0L.
Riding in a T-bucket with a period HotRod flathead V8 or supercharged Chrysler Hemi with huge meats out back and a tiny windshield.... you know the cars.... would, without a doubt, be a blast. But I think riding around in an all original "appearing" Model T would be even cooler. How many people are alive that can say they've done that?

From my aspect of the point, it's about the car, not the driver.

Shift,
Eventhough your car doesn't have the original drivetrain, it can be had. A Cos is still a Cos if it has a Cos engine. viewtopic.php?f=5&t=28107

Different strokes for different folks. Enjoy your builds, guys.

[mldeolde]

AHMEN BROTHER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[res0o7eb]

Not every one wants an inferior stock car, nor does everyone want a race car

Actually, nobody wants an inferior car whether it is stock, modified, or cut up.

Most of them are death traps anyway.

I don't know about that. I drove a 74 Vega GT for a few years and never thought it was unsafe. But, swapping a V-8 into a Vega without changing the front brakes makes it a death trap - MORE GO (FAST), LESS SLOW (DOWN).
Add this to the list of death traps:

Riding in a T-bucket with a period HotRod flathead V8 or supercharged Chrysler Hemi with huge meats out back and a tiny windshield.... you know the cars.... would, without a doubt, be a blast.

I would rather see a car that is built the way that the owner want it to be that tells you so much about that particular owner.

I don't care about the owner of the car as much as I care about the craftsmanship that went in to the restoration or the modification of the car.

A car is just a car.

True. There are SO MANY of them out there for sale already converted to whatever suits you. Look for one of those FIRST, before cutting on a low mileage, rust free survivor.

Hell I cant wait to hear everyone complain when I start cutting up these mirages that I have to make them in to the car they should have been to start with

Not everyone - I won't complain. The Mirage is just a Monza with some cheezy fiberglass flares on it - but some wicked spoilers - and NO PERFORMANCE UPGRADES. Cool paint job, though. Have at it. Make it look like mildeolde's rad red ride. That is what GM should have had in its showrooms back in the day.

As Scott said - it depends on what you start with. I changed the heading on this post to reflect what we are actually talking about.

[Ishiftem]

Mldeolde,



Shift,
Eventhough your car doesn't have the original drivetrain, it can be had. A Cos is still a Cos if it has a Cos engine. viewtopic.php?f=5&t=28107

Different strokes for different folks. Enjoy your builds, guys.

Thanks but,I need more cubic inches. I'm trying to increase my carbon footprint