T56 Retrofit Transmission

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T56 Retrofit Transmission

Postby vega_man_larry » Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:31 pm

Well if you're going to do a ZL1 Monza or Vega you'll also need one of these http://www.ddperformance.com/chevyT-56.htm I've been looking at using the stock style bellhousing and adapting a 6 speed to it. That would get rid of all the hydraulic clutch stuff. I've found some adapter plates on ebay and I'll try to do it cheaper than this part (I drive a Vega after all :lol: ). I think I'll need to machine up a special pilot bushing and run a fine splined clutch. Maybe I can do it under a grand?

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Postby 75_2+2 » Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:42 pm

COOL !

Thanks for the link. Now I just got to wait until I am rich.
1975 Monza 2+2
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T56 Swap Part numbers

Postby vega_man_larry » Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:56 pm

Well I've been scrounging around the internet and I have come up with these part numbers for the T56 swap

McLeod has an adapter plate with the T/O bearing collar for an early Chevy that will bolt up to the Monza V8 bellhousing. The part number is 8-207. Jegs sells it for $256.99. They also have an extended pilot bushing to provide support for the input shaft (you need to account for the 1/2 inch thick adapter plate). The extended pilot bushing is p/n 8617 . Jegs has that listed at 39.99.

My next question is what size flywheel will fit in a Monza bellhousing?

Will a 153 tooth 10.5 inch flywheel fit? I need to use a 1 piece crank part so my application is limited as the original flywheel will not work with my crankshaft.

It appears that we can sucessfully eliminate the hydraulic clutch retrofit and maybe avoid changing the bellhousing and keep a V8 Monza bellhousing. This would remove the need to modify the unibody like Colin did. It would also help enable more H Bodys to make the switch to T56.

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Postby djv8ga » Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:07 pm

A Richmond would be easier.
Wayne.
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Postby ColinOpseth » Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:16 pm

Careful.

That transmission is taller than a BW T56. You'll definitely need to raise it higher than I have in my Vega. To give you an idea how much, one of my friends has a '91 B4C (police package) Camaro. The 3rdgen can be upgraded without any floor modifications to a T56 transmission. He ended up cutting the whole floor out of his car so he could get the tailshaft high enough to cure a bad driveline vibration.

I'd still recommend a 4thgen T56. Buy the BMR Fabrication bracket. You'll have to modify it to fit but mine works fine. The stock hydraulics are easy to bolt to the pedals, too.

Later,
Colin
'72 Vega with '93 Camaro LT1/M29 T56/12 bolt 3.31. 16" IROCs all around. Sanderson headers into duals with an H-pipe and Flowmasters. It's loud but at least it's faster than your grandma's Buick. pwned.
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Re: T56 Swap Part numbers

Postby ColinOpseth » Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:18 pm

vega_man_larry wrote:It appears that we can sucessfully eliminate the hydraulic clutch retrofit and maybe avoid changing the bellhousing and keep a V8 Monza bellhousing. This would remove the need to modify the unibody like Colin did. It would also help enable more H Bodys to make the switch to T56.


You'll have to do that anyway. The T56 is wider than my transmission tunnel all the back to the tailshaft. Unless your tunnel is at least 1" wider than mine all the way back to the e-brake you'll be doing the cut and fit dance.
'72 Vega with '93 Camaro LT1/M29 T56/12 bolt 3.31. 16" IROCs all around. Sanderson headers into duals with an H-pipe and Flowmasters. It's loud but at least it's faster than your grandma's Buick. pwned.
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Postby myvega » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:57 am

What about this one? www.gforcetransmissions.com The owner of the company is a friend of mine. Tell 'em I sent you.
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Postby vegagreg » Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:30 am

Myvega,

Are you running a g-force trans? I have a w.c. t-5 that fits real nice in my Vega, but I'm worried it won't last behind my 383. If I had a problem I was thinking about using the g-force gears.
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Postby NixVegaGT » Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:04 am

Boy if anybody'd know, you would Colin. LOL! I'm going to T5 too. I just bought the Straight-cut Dog-ring gears from your buddy! Really great company. They put up with a lot of me calling with questions about options. I threw every kind of question about interchangeability at them and they never told me to take a hike. As any responsible salesman would do, they did try to upsell me a couple times to just buy the whole thing out right. LOL!! If they had any reconditioned units I'd have probably done that.

I'd buy from them anytime though.

On your T-5, Greg: How short did you have to make the driveshaft? You used the f-body yoke? What are the combo u-joint part #'s. Thanks in advance man. I'll probably post in the transmission forum too to keep the info organized...


Peep this thread there when you get a chance. We could use your input:

http://forums.h-body.org/viewtopic.php?t=19964
- Nic '73 Vega GT "DogBoxx" Batwing LS1
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2357894
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Speedo

Postby vega_man_larry » Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:20 am

Another problem that will be encountered with the T56 swap is the vehicle speed. I found this link https://shell7.tdl.com/~jags/T56_Order.html for $350 you can get your tailshaft modded. I think the total budget is around $1,500 which beats the new tranny by 50%.

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Postby greg72 » Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:16 am

This is a link to a thread on ImpalaSSforum.com regarding putting a T56 in fullsize GM b-bodies..... Impala SS and my Buick Roadmaster Wagon. :wink: It was started in 2003 , but it is a sticky because much if not all of the information still applies today.

http://www.impalassforum.com/vBulletin/ ... p?t=100037

Its a long thread but has some good general information in it as well as the specific B-body stuff.

I found this post of particular interest as this is probably the set up I will go with in both my H-bodies and my Roadmaster (it is post # 6 and is posted by wood95SS ). Also please bear in mind the F-body stuff he is referring to is '94-97 :

".........Clutch system: I've stated this before, but because of what the intent of this thread is, I'll say it again.

The F-body uses a pull-style pressure plate. The pressure plate has an integal throwout bearing attached to diaphragm. This is why the F-body pressure plate is so much more expensive than a conventional push-style pressure plate. Personally I have no experience with the F-body clutch; in fact I'd never heard of a pull-style pressure plate - was the old style broke?

The reason for my research into alternative clutch systems was because I have FLP long tube headers - and the left one likes to occupy the same space as the GM external slave cylinder. Cut up the header? Not no, but heck no. Plan B: conventional push-style clutch with compatible actuation system.

Enter McLeod: McLeod offers a replacement master cylinder for the F-body system. This is an all metal, 13/16" diameter cylinder with an articulated input rod and adjustable spherical ball rod end fitting (heim joint). P/N is 139001 for the LS1 F-body, for about $200 from Thunder Racing, and will bolt right in to the clutch pedal bracket as a replacement for the GM master. The McLeod master also has a higher fluid volume output which may help T-56er's having problems entering reverse due to a clutch that won't fully release.

For the slave and throwout bearing McLeod makes a slip-on/over-the-snout slave actuator with integral throwout bearing. This slave literally slips over the T56 input shaft and remains sandwiched between the pressure plate and transmission (read: no throw out fork required) within the bell housing. It also incorporates a bleed line for system bleeding (I'll bet this got your attention) and an internal adjustment collar which is used to move the slave closer to the pressure plate if needed. The slave is all metal, and rebuildable (o-rings). The actual throwout bearing also slips onto the slave cylinder and it too is replaceable. This slave has a stoke of ~ 0.650"; you need about 0.250" to release a clutch disk.

Conventional clutch came from SPEC in Birmingham, Alabama. ~$350 for flywheel resurface, pressure plate, and Stage II disc from these folks.

Clutch has tremendous grip. Release system has given me ZERO problems since installation. Both master and slave are all metal parts and are rebuildable.
Conventional clutch pressure plate isn't as expensive as the F-body unit - and that was enough to go 'conventional' in that I intend to keep the car and go thru a couple clutches in the coming years, and won't get gouged for that GM stoke of genius.

If you are curious, go to the McLeod website and take a look at their online catalog. They show a nice picture of the hydraulic slave cylinder, See 'slip-on' bearings vice bolt-on ones..........."
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Postby vegagreg » Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:46 pm

Wow, I thought I was the only one running a t-5. Nick, to answer questions. I bought a 43 inch denny's driveshaft off ebay. I'ts probably overkill but the price was right. It already had the front gm Spicer yoke and a rear Ford ujoint to connect to the 9inch. I haven't put it in yet so I can't tell you how the combo works. My brother use to have an 86 Iroc with a zz350 and a non wc t-5. He use to pound on it pretty bad and it never broke. I figure a wc t-5 in a lighter car should work pretty good. My t-5 also has a counter gear stabalizer plate so that should also help. Larry, sorry for highjacking your thread.
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Un Hijack This is a Six Speed Thread

Postby vega_man_larry » Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:24 pm

Now back to our regularly scheduled 6 speed thread.

I am trying to do a low budget T56 (Ha Ha) so I'm trying to stay away from aftermarket parts. Speedway Motors has this bellhousing

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/p/1950,36 ... sings.html

add to it this throwout bearing

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/p/1945,41 ... rings.html

and the tab is already to $500! Mind you it looks like the bellhousing would be an easy fit as it is made to clear a 153 tooth 10 and 1/2 inch flywheel. Add the adapter plate and things get spendy in a hurry.

I did notice that they also have this part
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/p/6974,41 ... rings.html
which is cheaper than the McLeod pilot bushing.

Here is an adapter plate on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... =p3907.m29
it is presently at $200.

I'm collecting parts and I think I can do a cable clutch alot cheaper than a hydraulic version. It is also simpler and now all I need is a Generation 3 Camaro in the pick and pull junkyard for the flywheel and clutch and pressure plate cores.

If I continue to do PowerTour I need to get a sixth gear to get the gas milage above 30MPG. A single overdrive isn't going to cut it so a 5 speed is out of the question. My 4 speed overdrive auto only gets around 23 MPG. I need more so I add a six speed and get better milage AND I get rid of the heat from the transcooler coil in the radiator.

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Re: Un Hijack This is a Six Speed Thread

Postby greg72 » Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:02 pm

vega_man_larry wrote:
If I continue to do PowerTour I need to get a sixth gear to get the gas milage above 30MPG. A single overdrive isn't going to cut it so a 5 speed is out of the question. My 4 speed overdrive auto only gets around 23 MPG. I need more so I add a six speed and get better milage AND I get rid of the heat from the transcooler coil in the radiator.

Larry


AND you get to add the FUN pedal (you know the one to the left of the brake pedal) to your Vega !!!

This is a cool thread Larry. I am already looking into the parts you mentioned , very cool indeed. Please keep us posted on your progress.
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Re: T56 Swap Part numbers

Postby vega_man_larry » Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:19 pm

ColinOpseth wrote:
vega_man_larry wrote:It appears that we can sucessfully eliminate the hydraulic clutch retrofit and maybe avoid changing the bellhousing and keep a V8 Monza bellhousing. This would remove the need to modify the unibody like Colin did. It would also help enable more H Bodys to make the switch to T56.


You'll have to do that anyway. The T56 is wider than my transmission tunnel all the back to the tailshaft. Unless your tunnel is at least 1" wider than mine all the way back to the e-brake you'll be doing the cut and fit dance.


Colin,

I keep forgetting that you have a 1972 Vega. Your transmission tunnel was made for the Opel 3 and 4 speed transmission i. e. narrow! In 1975 the transmission tunnel was widened so I'm hoping that I won't have to do anything in the way of widening it. I'll get some measurements this weekend, but maybe I can fit it all in without any welding.

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