Pininfarina design of Monza

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Pininfarina design of Monza

Postby ken960 » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:11 am

Some/many of you may know, but I thought I would share this anyways for those of you who may not. GM had the design house of Pininfarina design the body style for the Monza 2+2 fastback body style. What some may not know is the two cars that GM wanted to draw from for some of it's design. Namely the Lamborghini GT350/GT400/GT400 2+2 front end with its dual headlights on each side with a sloping nose in between void of a traditional grill (which the Monza evolved even less of a grill in 1978--more of a beak) and the side window elements, specifically the rear side windows, from the Ferrari 365 GTC/4. A lot of you may have known about the Ferrari but how many knew about the Lambo? Obviously, there had to be compromises so the sheet metal could fit on the existing Vega platform, and the dual quad headlamps were a first for GM on the Monza. Car of the year in 1975!!! Hope you found this interesting. Ken
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Re: Pininfarina design of Monza

Postby marco_1978_spyder » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:56 am

Hi Ken thanks for the info and a great conversation starter.

I do remember reading that Pininfarina had a hand in the design, but its actually not so clear...

Here's what I think I know,

I've read that a Vega chassis was shipped over to Italy for the monza body drawings to get built on.
-I think GM designers actually penned the design- , and Pininfarina was hired to create a running prototype on a Vega chassis and figure out the actual unibody construction/design.

As far as I know, paper drawings and the concepts were draw up by GM designers under John Moss. (or was it Bill Mitchell?)

Irving Rybicki is said to have been the penmen. He was a big Ferarri nut and did indeed claim influence from the Ferarri GTC+4.
The Lambo influence is new to me, but the raised dual headlights on the 350 and 400 were an obvious influence.

The hottest exotic cars of the day, had the raised lights with a fastback style design.(porsche, Lambo, Jag)

I think the GM studio's went so far as a Clay Model of the Monza.

Imagine having the already great Vega sheetmetal, and having to come up with something all new, stylish, feasible to produce, with looks to match "the engine of the future".
Maybe after a few wines, even a joint, or drop of Acid (hey, it was the age of Timothy Leary)and some looks through a Ferarri book and the inspiration came.

No matter how it happened, I think Irving hit a home run if you ask me.

I actually tried to contact Irving in the late 90's for an interview, but I was 2 years too late after his passing.

Thanks for the interesting post! And the bringing the Lambo influence into light.



Marco
1978 Monza Spyder V8 4speed, posi
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1980 Sunbird Hatchback 4cyl, 4spd.
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Re: Pininfarina design of Monza

Postby marco_1978_spyder » Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:10 pm

Here's a neat website detailing Irv Rybicki, and GM in the 70's.

Unfortunately, they skip over any hint or mention of the H body.

http://archive.cardesignnews.com/news/2 ... index.html
1978 Monza Spyder V8 4speed, posi
1978 Sunbird Formula V6, 5 Speed, Hatchback
1980 Sunbird Hatchback 4cyl, 4spd.
2006 Chevrolet Aveo 5 speed Hatchback
Yes, you can refer to me as Mark
Please visit my blog... http://chevymonza.blogspot.com/ Follow if you like!
Featuring special guests; Carl Beraytor and Ray D'atore

My Red spyder now has a youtube channel please Like and Subscribe!!!
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Re: Pininfarina design of Monza

Postby marco_1978_spyder » Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:27 pm

I might be writing to myself here, but this thread has got me researching these facts and events of the Monza's production phase.

Here's the latest I've come to understand...

Chuck Jordan was the Huge Ferarri buff, Maybe more so than Irv. He may have had a hand in the side window profile, that was borrowed from the Ferarri.

There's no evidence anywhere that Pininfarina had a hand in the actual monza prototype that we drive today.

It looks more like they created the Wankel Show cars, ex; 'XP-88X' that were used as influences to the monza that was eventually drawn up.

It was either car and driver or Road and Track who had a blurb about the whole deal, but maybe I gandered the wrong idea from what I read, I'm going to have to dig up the article and check.

And lastly, Somewhere I have a picture of Bill Mitchell admiring the clay model of the monza.
1978 Monza Spyder V8 4speed, posi
1978 Sunbird Formula V6, 5 Speed, Hatchback
1980 Sunbird Hatchback 4cyl, 4spd.
2006 Chevrolet Aveo 5 speed Hatchback
Yes, you can refer to me as Mark
Please visit my blog... http://chevymonza.blogspot.com/ Follow if you like!
Featuring special guests; Carl Beraytor and Ray D'atore

My Red spyder now has a youtube channel please Like and Subscribe!!!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOzzSR ... ISuing7KLA
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Re: Pininfarina design of Monza

Postby spyder_xlch » Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:18 pm

marco_1978_spyder wrote: Somewhere I have a picture of Bill Mitchell admiring the clay model of the monza.

Post it or else. :lol:
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Re: Pininfarina design of Monza

Postby AusRs » Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:27 am

spyder_xlch wrote:
marco_1978_spyder wrote: Somewhere I have a picture of Bill Mitchell admiring the clay model of the monza.

Post it or else. :lol:

agreed
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Re: Pininfarina design of Monza

Postby marco_1978_spyder » Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:17 pm

I cant find it!

I got all my magazines out, and poured through the issues I thought it would be in....it wasnt there.

I think I had another "chevrolet friends" magazine, that I didnt see. Might be in there?

I'll keep looking.
1978 Monza Spyder V8 4speed, posi
1978 Sunbird Formula V6, 5 Speed, Hatchback
1980 Sunbird Hatchback 4cyl, 4spd.
2006 Chevrolet Aveo 5 speed Hatchback
Yes, you can refer to me as Mark
Please visit my blog... http://chevymonza.blogspot.com/ Follow if you like!
Featuring special guests; Carl Beraytor and Ray D'atore

My Red spyder now has a youtube channel please Like and Subscribe!!!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOzzSR ... ISuing7KLA
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Re: Pininfarina design of Monza

Postby marco_1978_spyder » Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:32 pm

I f first heard of Irving Rybicki's name associated with Monza's after reading the letters section in Road and Track (may have been c/d but I dont think so)..a few issues later than the Monza introduction issue..

If anyone has this year of issues, can you check what was said? 2 or three letters wrote in and complimented the article.
1978 Monza Spyder V8 4speed, posi
1978 Sunbird Formula V6, 5 Speed, Hatchback
1980 Sunbird Hatchback 4cyl, 4spd.
2006 Chevrolet Aveo 5 speed Hatchback
Yes, you can refer to me as Mark
Please visit my blog... http://chevymonza.blogspot.com/ Follow if you like!
Featuring special guests; Carl Beraytor and Ray D'atore

My Red spyder now has a youtube channel please Like and Subscribe!!!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOzzSR ... ISuing7KLA
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Re: Pininfarina design of Monza

Postby marco_1978_spyder » Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:42 pm

Ok, here's some info from Road and Track September 1974. Pg, 37...
"PF [Pininfarina] Built the first running prototype from a chassis and a plaster model of the basic design provided by Chevrolet in 1971" So it seems like what I said was right.
1978 Monza Spyder V8 4speed, posi
1978 Sunbird Formula V6, 5 Speed, Hatchback
1980 Sunbird Hatchback 4cyl, 4spd.
2006 Chevrolet Aveo 5 speed Hatchback
Yes, you can refer to me as Mark
Please visit my blog... http://chevymonza.blogspot.com/ Follow if you like!
Featuring special guests; Carl Beraytor and Ray D'atore

My Red spyder now has a youtube channel please Like and Subscribe!!!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOzzSR ... ISuing7KLA
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Re: Pininfarina design of Monza

Postby MIKESMONZA » Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:49 pm

ken960/Marco;
nice info
That is Great Syling History,
I remember a Post where one of the Members;

Found a Model of that Ferrari body style,
at a Outdoors Carshow,,and had pictures from front,sides and back,,
and maybe some one ,,,a h-body owner would park both along side

:arrow: Probaly a Red SpyderW Stripes,,, Ahem,,,,,hint!
as that Color would look closer to the "Ferrari Red's" :dance:

I would do it My self but Finding a 36 -40 yearold
"Black Ferrari" In Texas at a open Carshow Would be A lot harder :oops:
unless it's,,, parked next to Miami Vice Clone,,,,Daytona Spyder,,LOL
Mike
Last edited by MIKESMONZA on Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pininfarina design of Monza

Postby marco_1978_spyder » Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:16 am

You've intrigued me. I do have a photo that would work well with this thread.

As far as I know, its the only known photograph of the 2 vehicles side by side.

So I dug it out and here it is..
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1978 Monza Spyder V8 4speed, posi
1978 Sunbird Formula V6, 5 Speed, Hatchback
1980 Sunbird Hatchback 4cyl, 4spd.
2006 Chevrolet Aveo 5 speed Hatchback
Yes, you can refer to me as Mark
Please visit my blog... http://chevymonza.blogspot.com/ Follow if you like!
Featuring special guests; Carl Beraytor and Ray D'atore

My Red spyder now has a youtube channel please Like and Subscribe!!!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOzzSR ... ISuing7KLA
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Re: Pininfarina design of Monza

Postby res0o7eb » Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:58 am

Amazing similarities!

I like the Pantera, too.
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Re: Pininfarina design of Monza

Postby marco_1978_spyder » Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:12 am

If you look close , there's a Testarossa, hiding just on the other side of my spyder.

I've drooled over sooo many Ferrari and Lambo design's. The first thing I'd get with a big money prize, would be an Enzo.

Back more on topic... The influence is undeniable, yet...I think it was a well done deal. Its not totally exact, It just draws strong resemblence, which I think is exactly what the pennmen would have wanted...

A.They weren't about to disrespect their Idols, by just totally ripping it off.
B. I dont think PF or Ferrari would have allowed that without some sort of litigation...
C. The Ferrari design doesn't utilize a door frame around the windshield, so it wouldnt actually have been feasible to totally duplicate it.

I find it very interesting how the trunk lid/rear roof line of the Ferrari seems to have been previously copied for use on the Vega Hatchback.

The Vega chassis needed futuristic looks to match the futuristic wankel power plant that was going to be used.
Luckily, around the same time Ford was designing a Mustang off of the Pinto unibody Idea to feature a stock V8 engine.
So likewise, GM included room in the designs for a possible V8. Certainly they had the idea of developing their full unibody idea, towards their future ponycar offering in the same way.
AMC, planning to offer the Wankel technology in their own design, had been designing a more utilitarian, futuristic compact, the Pacer.
So for the Monza, it was sporty, all the way. Borrowing from designers who knew sporty.
And I guess its just plain cool looking too, and they knew it.

The Monza's B pillar slats are much more pronounced, but still cool looking.
I think a Monza 2+2 with chrome moulding would have made an even better comparison.

The shape of the rear glass, is close, yet not exact.
And the way the moulding surrounds the entire monza shape. That adds to the uniqueness.
Also the Ferrari had a small window divider up front, the Monza does not.

I like the fact that the complete moulding surround and center pillar vents create an 'Alien Eye'.
The shape and direction of the lines on the monza is rather complex and encompases hints of optical illusion.

And this is just the Side window...there's the whole Lamborghini Front end tratment to discuss..

I like the 75-77 2+2 front clip as much as the 78+. On the 78+'s I love the floating Monza lettering....
very 50's futuristic if you ask me, and I always thought that was a cool, tasteful, and interesting touch.

There's lots to be discussed on how the shapes of the slopes were similar.

And then the Porsche takes...the black Rally II rims, the Lower Door stripes for the later Vega GT and Monza Spyder, ah, la Porsche Carrera.
1978 Monza Spyder V8 4speed, posi
1978 Sunbird Formula V6, 5 Speed, Hatchback
1980 Sunbird Hatchback 4cyl, 4spd.
2006 Chevrolet Aveo 5 speed Hatchback
Yes, you can refer to me as Mark
Please visit my blog... http://chevymonza.blogspot.com/ Follow if you like!
Featuring special guests; Carl Beraytor and Ray D'atore

My Red spyder now has a youtube channel please Like and Subscribe!!!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOzzSR ... ISuing7KLA
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Re: Pininfarina design of Monza

Postby MIKESMONZA » Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:48 am

Marco;
That Is the picture i remember and maybe you had some others,
but ,, :arrow: That has A "Great Viewing Angle"
so you can see both Body lines in Concert,
Plying their Wares so to speak,,,,

And I like your View of the Differances and Styling Cues,,
as some of us Realy need a Required reading "Refresher Course"
in Automobile Body's Styling

Our Opel Cousins, have a lot of appeal as Well

Eyeball Candy,, :arrow: Fine Italian Body Styling
Mike
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Re: Pininfarina design of Monza

Postby MIKESMONZA » Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:26 am

Marco;Here are a Couple of Lambo Shots of the 350GT the 400GT
If you Look at the Plates He Live's in NY State,,,lol

And a Lambo one off car called 400MonzaGT.,,,,, :shock:
that was built for an American Buyer;,,,,,,,,,,(I wonder who?? Ed Cole???Howard Hughes,??)LOL.
who wanted to Race it in The LeMans Race but Due to the rules (HomoGation??)
where a certain nunber __ __ :arrow: produced could be used as a Race Car but had to be available /bought by the Public
He Backed out,,,

Car was sold to weathy Spainard at Auction, Tagged in Spain, and Driven daily
Owner died in 1990,,
The car is in A UK colecction Now
There is more to the Name ,,,,two of the body/Chassis Builder's,Both had long names and it was decided to shorten name to 400GT Monza
Got info from Wikipedia;
67 Lambo-400GT2+2.jpg
66 lambomonza400gt.jpg
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