manual brake rod solution anyone?

Best technical articles on the forums. Send nominations to the admins. You can reply to topics but only admins can make new ones.

Moderator: Moderators

manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby 73astregt » Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:06 pm

ive searched the forums but cant seem to find a definite solution for the brake rod problem. i was going to put an aftermarket booster and camaro master on the car but its not working out(bracket problems steering clearance arrrrgh!)im going to try to hook up the master without the booster with the universal rod kit but how am i gonna keep the rod from falling out of the master? i thought to use the rubber boot from the master that was in the car and tie strap it at both ends. anyone got a better idea(read safer) for this problem? i see someone used a mopar performance master or dodge d200 truck also a 87 dodge daytona. do these have the rod attached? is it the right length? are there manual brake masters for these applications and are they all disc, drum or they disc disc? my car is disk drum with s10 gear up front and small dodge dart drums and a adjustable prop valve on the back. HELP PLEASE! GOTTA GET THIS THING TOGETHER TO GO TO THE MONZA QUE AT THE END OF THE MONTH! plus im missing the show and shines but it had to be done brakes were bad on the car! :bang: :bang: :bang:
73 astre gt 355 small block 435 hp 435 torque edelbrock performer rpm power package
User avatar
73astregt
 
Posts: 2216
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 4:50 pm
Location: Bridgewater Nova Scotia Canada

1973 Pontiac Astre GT


Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby Roccosvega » Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:42 pm

Napa sells a direct replacement for the manual master its identical to the original accept a little taller to hold more fluid.
Part #36300 Its even a 3/4 bore and Made in USA. Took two days to get mine...Robert.
User avatar
Roccosvega
 
Posts: 616
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:03 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby gt350fme » Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:43 pm

My adjustable universal brake rod that I got from aerospace products, has an O ring at the tip that goes into the Manuel master cylinder, pops in place with much difficulty, but then stays in strong, got the master from aerospace also, so they are a match in that area.
The trick is getting the right length rod, then it just stays in place when assembled correctly.

I can take a pic if you like?
1964 Chevy K20 Panel
1973 GT Vega Hatchback
1984 944 porsche
1992 Lexus SC 400
User avatar
gt350fme
 
Posts: 572
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:40 pm

1973 Chevrolet Vega GT

Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby sportster96blk » Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:18 am

i found a brake booster from schuck auto parts stock for 75 monza part took five days to arrive and have a master clyc from a corvete ordered from jegs i can find part number if you want them parts bolted right in not sure if vega is same
User avatar
sportster96blk
 
Posts: 497
Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 12:41 am
Location: kenmore wa

1975 Chevrolet Monza 2+2

Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby Bob Gumm » Thu Jul 09, 2009 3:16 am

I ran a bolt through my original retainer and tightened a large washer and nut onto it and then chucked it in a drilll. Positioned the drill in a vice with soft jaws and then while it was spinning used a cutoff wheel to trim the face off of the cylinder shaped part. Then I weled the face onto the appropriate sized exhaust hose cut to length and split down the seam. I used the MC as a guide to dimple the exhaust hose around the MC rod retaining groove. I then removed the piece I made, positioned the rod into it, and used a hose clamp to reattach it to the MC. It may sound complicated, but I have a welder and the tools and it only took minutes to make.

master_cylinder_rod-keeper-cut.jpg


Good luck,
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Bob Gumm
v8monza.com
User avatar
Bob Gumm
 
Posts: 517
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:56 am

Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby 73astregt » Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:14 am

pics would be great! i need all the help i can get lol!
73 astre gt 355 small block 435 hp 435 torque edelbrock performer rpm power package
User avatar
73astregt
 
Posts: 2216
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 4:50 pm
Location: Bridgewater Nova Scotia Canada

1973 Pontiac Astre GT

Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby cosvega76 » Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:22 am

Fred,

When I was using the Monza master in my Vega, I just took a 1-5/8" freeze plug and drilled a hole in in just larger than the pushrod to fit through. Then I siliconed it (cup side toward the master cylinder) on the boss of the master cylinder. I now use the pushrod cup that I found when I was scrapping a '76 Cosworth. It fits in the hole in the firewall, and the pushrod slides through it.

Chuck
cosvega76
 
Posts: 2356
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:36 am
Location: Moscow Mills, MO

1973 Chevrolet Vega GT

Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby norcalace » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:08 am

Be aware that power brake masters are usually different from manual masters. First, they usually have a larger bore. Second the push rod hole is deeper on the manual MC to retain the rod. There are also long rod boosters and short rod boosters. (that is to say the rod between the booster and MC)

Also keep in mind that although Corvette ran alot of manual brake setups in the '70's they were 4 wheel discs and thus the MCs did not have a residual valve.
Without the residual valve the rear drums will not function properly.

The MC rod attachment location on the brake lever is usually different between manual and power MCs. This changes the ratio and thus the amount of leverage you are able to exert on the MC. The ideal ratios are 4:1 for power and 6:1 for manual.

Manual brakes usually have a longer pedal travel than power brakes and most people who prefer manual brakes say they get a better "feel" with manual brakes.

Manual brakes are in no way inferior to power brakes. Look at all the race cars that use manual brakes. Power brakes were developed to shorten brake pedal travel as well as the amount of effort to aply the brakes. In effect the booster compensates for the manual's longer travel and increased lever ratio.

So, having said all that a good manual setup (for disc/drum) will have the following;

1. a properly sized MC (bore) with deep hole for rod retention and a residual valve (part of the MC) for the rear drums
2. 6:1 push rod ratio
3. a disc/drum proportioning valve
4. line lock..optional..can't leave out the fun factor

I am converting back to manual brakes this weekend and will be installing a 36300 (NAPA) MC that Rocco is using. It comes with the rod. I have S-10 brakes all around and although an S-10 MC is approximately a 15/16 bore I am hoping the 3/4 bore on the 36300 will not have an excessive amount of pedal travel. That's what you get with too small of a bore and alot of fluid to move. The 36300 is a direct replacement for the '75 Monza. Obviosly the S10 calipers are larger than the Monzas so I'm hoping not too much larger.

Hopefully Rocco will post back his results as I will.

BTW the same MC is available from Autozone for around $40 new. I think it's a Fenco brand and also comes with the rod. NAPA's is Raybestos and is $122.
norcalace
 
Posts: 301
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:24 pm

1972 Chevrolet Vega GT

Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby gt350fme » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:53 am

Shown is the 4 wheel disk manual master and universal rod from aerospace products, circled is the o ring on the new rod.
The new boot I got from a local brake booster re builder.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
1964 Chevy K20 Panel
1973 GT Vega Hatchback
1984 944 porsche
1992 Lexus SC 400
User avatar
gt350fme
 
Posts: 572
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:40 pm

1973 Chevrolet Vega GT

Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby 73astregt » Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:04 pm

as a side question theres a clamp on the steering shaft just below where the column comes out of the firewall has a bolt thru it . what does it do just hold the shaft from sliding up in an accident? just wondering if i can eliminate it to make clearance for the booster or am i looking to get speared in a front ender?
73 astre gt 355 small block 435 hp 435 torque edelbrock performer rpm power package
User avatar
73astregt
 
Posts: 2216
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 4:50 pm
Location: Bridgewater Nova Scotia Canada

1973 Pontiac Astre GT

Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby gt350fme » Thu Jul 09, 2009 6:59 pm

Good question, wondered that myself all these years, my 1974 Chevrolet manual says it is a steering shaft clamp and that it is used to set up some clearance alignment spacers that go in between the clamp and the bushing nose that sticks out, which also keeps the inner steering shaft to plastic bushing clearance of at least .180 inch, and that the spacers are available at your GM dealer, now that's a laugh!

I'm not sure if the spacers stay in place or are they taken out after things are aligned?

I have never seen those spacers on any h body.

Hopefully someone here knows more about this?

TC
1964 Chevy K20 Panel
1973 GT Vega Hatchback
1984 944 porsche
1992 Lexus SC 400
User avatar
gt350fme
 
Posts: 572
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:40 pm

1973 Chevrolet Vega GT

Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby norcalace » Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:10 pm

I believe that clamp is all that keeps the column shaft from being removed from the top. I just had my manual column out to install a tilt column and when I removed the clamp the shaft would pull out from the top.

To keep from getting skewered in an accident the lower portion of the shaft is designed to slide up into the upper. It is kept in place and from vibrating by two sections of plastic melted and poured into 2 small holes on the flat section. I guess you would have to smack the front end pretty good to shove things far enough to move the column shaft.

The tilt columns have a rag joint to keep the column shaft from rising and it retains the same slider system on the lower part as the manual column.
norcalace
 
Posts: 301
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:24 pm

1972 Chevrolet Vega GT

Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby 73astregt » Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:32 pm

thanks for the replys on the clamp im leaving it on just in case of a crash. not worth the risk to go without it. back to the regular program lol! heres what i was trying to use on the car. the booster mounting bracket is for a 55 chev power conversion and the brake rod parts are the ssbc universal kit. this will work with a solution found for the affore mentioned steering clamp. the booster is an aftermarket one i found at the speed shop and i mated a early 70s camaro master to it. as i said before im going to stay with the manual setup for now with the camaro master.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
73 astre gt 355 small block 435 hp 435 torque edelbrock performer rpm power package
User avatar
73astregt
 
Posts: 2216
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 4:50 pm
Location: Bridgewater Nova Scotia Canada

1973 Pontiac Astre GT

Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby 73astregt » Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:45 pm

heres some pics of the bores in the vega master and the camaro master.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
73 astre gt 355 small block 435 hp 435 torque edelbrock performer rpm power package
User avatar
73astregt
 
Posts: 2216
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 4:50 pm
Location: Bridgewater Nova Scotia Canada

1973 Pontiac Astre GT

Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby 73astregt » Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:53 pm

now for the icing on the cake! i totally forgot that when member thx1138 shipped me the pedals to do the t5 conversion he sent me the brake rod with them, HERES THE PART THAT SOLVES THE PROBLEM OF KEEPING THE BRAKE ROD IN THE MASTER! and fits the camaro master perfectly, its out of a 77 sunbird that the pedals came from.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
73 astre gt 355 small block 435 hp 435 torque edelbrock performer rpm power package
User avatar
73astregt
 
Posts: 2216
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 4:50 pm
Location: Bridgewater Nova Scotia Canada

1973 Pontiac Astre GT

Next

Return to Best Of

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest