manual brake rod solution anyone?

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Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby 73astregt » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:10 pm

heres a side by side of the masters showing the pushrods. the one on the camaro master looks a bit longer but its the same i was trying to hold it in with my knee but it slipped a bit.
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Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby 73astregt » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:15 pm

ill try to get it all set up and bled by the end of the weekend so i can get it in the alignment shop on monday or tuesday. ill revisit the power setup in the spring before driving season starts!
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Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby 73astregt » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:21 pm

one more pic showing the diference in the size of the reservoir between the vega and the camaro. when the camaro one is on the car it looks like ill be able to just bend the line a bit to make the match to the rear port on the master its close!
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Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby 80 MONZTA » Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:13 pm

Could you measure the diameter of that booster? It looks pretty small in the pic's.
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Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby cosvega76 » Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:03 pm

norcalace wrote:I am converting back to manual brakes this weekend and will be installing a 36300 (NAPA) MC that Rocco is using. It comes with the rod. I have S-10 brakes all around and although an S-10 MC is approximately a 15/16 bore I am hoping the 3/4 bore on the 36300 will not have an excessive amount of pedal travel. That's what you get with too small of a bore and alot of fluid to move. The 36300 is a direct replacement for the '75 Monza. Obviosly the S10 calipers are larger than the Monzas so I'm hoping not too much larger.


I wish you luck, Rocco. When I first installed my S-10 single-piston brake setup, I reused my 3/4" Vega master. The pedal was low and spongy, and on hard application the rears would lock up. I ended up crashing my car because of this. I went to a 7/8" bore Monza master and had good results. Now, with the C4 Corvette dual-piston front calipers, I have moved up to a 15/16" bore master and have a good pedal with good feel.


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Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby cosvega76 » Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:06 pm

73astregt wrote:heres some pics of the bores in the vega master and the camaro master.


Fred,

Unfortunately, you are measuring the register bore, not the actual bore of the hydraulics. Camaro power brake masters from the '70s usually have a bore of 1-1/8" (1.125").

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Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby cosvega76 » Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:09 pm

73astregt wrote:now for the icing on the cake! i totally forgot that when member thx1138 shipped me the pedals to do the t5 conversion he sent me the brake rod with them, HERES THE PART THAT SOLVES THE PROBLEM OF KEEPING THE BRAKE ROD IN THE MASTER! and fits the camaro master perfectly, its out of a 77 sunbird that the pedals came from.


Fred,

That is the cup I was referring to that I found in a '76 Cosworth. It works well as a solution. The last Cosworth I have scrapped did not have this cup, so I am wondering at what point GM started installing this piece.

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Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby Roccosvega » Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:42 pm

Hey Chuck, I hope I dont encounter those problems. From what I have read the smaller the bore the lighter the pedal pressure.
I had a buick skylark that I put A new Master in Bone stock part and had all kind of problems like you describe and more.
Then I took the car and had it power bled and that took two tries.When they got it right the brakes were perfect.
I have manual brakes so pedal effort is a concern...Robert.
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Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby 73astregt » Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:47 pm

hey chuck i knew that i probably wasnt getting the right measurement of the bore but just tried to use it to show there didnt look to be too much difference to the vega master. and yes as soom as i saw the cup and rod i knew it was what you were talking about! :dance:
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Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby 73astregt » Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:56 pm

80 MONZTA wrote:Could you measure the diameter of that booster? It looks pretty small in the pic's.
sorry i didnt get back to you with the measurement before this . i was tied up working on the car. heres some pics of the booster. looks like around 6 1/4 to 6 1/2 across the front and 7 inches across the back.
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Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby 73astregt » Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:17 pm

on another note the car is finished now with the camaro master set up manual for the time being. i have a firm pedal with this master(takes a bit of leg to stop) but its leaps and bounds better than the fresh cowpatty pedal i had before! at least it feels like the car has brakes! thing that surprised me about installing the master was that the brakes bled the easiest ive ever seen! did the bench bleed put the plastic plugs back in the ports then the master sat overnite till saturday, installed the master, hooked up the lines and cracked open all the bleeder screws at the wheels and let it gravity bleed for about 45 minutes while i went out for a while to do some errands i needed to do, came back and my bro showed up at the same time so we topped up the master again and started bleeding the brakes in two rounds of the car the bleeding was done! way better than the 4 hours we spent after changing the rear brake line in the spring when i did the frame connectors! :dance: ill revisit the power setup in the spring before driving season when theres more time to mess with all the lines and other parts that need to be relocated to make it work.
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Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby NixVegaGT » Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:35 pm

I just made a rod this morning. I kinda wish I was paying attention to the thread. LOL. I ended up just cutting the stock rod after removing it from the stock master cylinder. I needed it to be used with the s10 manual master cylinder. I just cut 300 thou from the stock rod and welded it back together. Worked great. I'll get a pic when I get a chance.

The only thing I wish I'd done is put some adjustment in it. I think they solution I came up with would work great for a stock setup but I may need more adjustment for pedal position for heal/toe in the corners.

Thanks for the input guys. Maybe this should be a "best of"?
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Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby NixVegaGT » Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:38 am

Here's a couple pix of the rod I fabricated installed:

Image
Image
Image
Image

Where do you get a new boot for the master cylinder, BTW?? I need one, obviously.
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Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby cosvega76 » Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:32 am

Nic,

I don't know of any boots available for the Quick-Take-Up masters like the S-10. Those were usually mounted to a booster, not in a manual application. Plus, the boss is larger because of the larger QTU bore, so a boot off another standard master won't fit. Maybe try to find a freeze plug that will fit over the boss and drill a hole for the pushrod.

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Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby norcalace » Sat Jul 18, 2009 9:17 pm

Installed the '75 Monza 3/4" bore manual master. It is too small for the S-10 brakes. (front and rear)

Pedal travel was too long, too spongy and basically had trouble stopping the car.

Took it out and installed a '67 Corvette manual brake master. It's a 1" bore. Pedal is firm and the car stops very well.

I now have a brand new "75 Monza manual master if anyone's in need.
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