manual brake rod solution anyone?

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Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby 73astregt » Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:50 am

im going to head down to my parts store and see if by some miracle they have the 75 to 80 camaro non power disc brake master. if they have it ill make a report here if it works better. ultimate performance corvette shows them for 70 to 74 and 75 to 80(two different part numbers) camaro. oh and by the way i checked my brake rod and its in the upper hole on the pedal shaft wich is where it was with my old automatic manual pedal setup so thats fine and jives with the info i found on the site.
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Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby cosvega76 » Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:55 am

Fred,

There is only one problem I forsee with the manual Camaro master: it's a one-inch bore compared to the S-10's 24mm (approximately 15/16"). You'll experience a harder pedal.

Chuck
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Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby Bacchus » Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:40 pm

cosvega76 wrote:Fred,

When I was using the Monza master in my Vega, I just took a 1-5/8" freeze plug and drilled a hole in in just larger than the pushrod to fit through. Then I siliconed it (cup side toward the master cylinder) on the boss of the master cylinder. I now use the pushrod cup that I found when I was scrapping a '76 Cosworth. It fits in the hole in the firewall, and the pushrod slides through it.

Chuck


I copied chuck with the freeze plug idea.
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Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby 73astregt » Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:53 pm

cosvega76 wrote:Fred,

There is only one problem I forsee with the manual Camaro master: it's a one-inch bore compared to the S-10's 24mm (approximately 15/16"). You'll experience a harder pedal.
chuck i have a 73 camaro power master in the car now IT has a hard pedal lol! i got the manual camaro master today and i could see the bore register is quite a bit smaller than the one in the car now. ill take a pic of the register bore with the digital calipers tomorrow nite after work so we can compare the pics between the power and the manual. i had an s10 master to start out with and it would not even fit in the booster and the rod cup at all!. im not into making the hole for the master any bigger in the firewall. i cant see why putting a camaro manual master on should give me a hard pedal as thats what its for, manual disc brakes. the rear brakes are a non issue as i have an adjustable prop valve in the rear brake line.
Chuck
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Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby 73astregt » Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:10 pm

oops messed up that quote lol! by the way chuck , i really happy with those adjustable upper control arms i got from you .they really made a world of difference in the front of the car! :dance: :thumb:
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Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby cosvega76 » Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:04 am

Glad you like them, Fred! You should really notice the difference in the way it tracks down the road.

Chuck
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Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby 73astregt » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:54 pm

yep the car tracks great over the bumps and on the highway. not like before banged bad on bumps and it didnt feel like the steering wheel was attached to the front wheels on the highway. steering has light effort, right on center runs down the highway straight as a dime!
Last edited by 73astregt on Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby 73astregt » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:56 pm

now back to the program lol. heres a shot of the power brake master with the calipers in the register.
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Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby 73astregt » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:57 pm

heres the camaro manual master, its gotta be better than the power master lol!
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Last edited by 73astregt on Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby 73astregt » Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:00 pm

heres a few more pics of the manual master.
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Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby 73astregt » Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:04 pm

and for those of you still in doubt about bleeding the master, notice it says MUST BE !
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Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby cosvega76 » Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:44 am

73astregt wrote:chuck i have a 73 camaro power master in the car now IT has a hard pedal lol! i got the manual camaro master today and i could see the bore register is quite a bit smaller than the one in the car now. ill take a pic of the register bore with the digital calipers tomorrow nite after work so we can compare the pics between the power and the manual. i had an s10 master to start out with and it would not even fit in the booster and the rod cup at all!. im not into making the hole for the master any bigger in the firewall. i cant see why putting a camaro manual master on should give me a hard pedal as thats what its for, manual disc brakes. the rear brakes are a non issue as i have an adjustable prop valve in the rear brake line.


I missed this response since it was in the quote. Sorry! Ok, Fred, let's start from the beginning.

First of all, the reason the S-10 master won't fit in the firewall is because it is a Quick Take Up style of master. This means there is a large bore next to the firewall (31.75mm / 1-1/4") - with the corresponding large register boss - to move a lot of fluid into the Metric (S-10) style caliper to set the pads against the rotor. The Metric style calipers have a 2-1/2" diameter piston with a seal design that pulls the piston and pads away from the rotor to lessen the drag for better fuel economy. When the pads contact the rotor, and the brake fluid pressure reaches a certain point, the quick-take-up valve bypasses the fluid back into the reservoir and the main bore (24mm / 15/16") of the master takes over. Then it responds like the main bore, to pressurize the brake system for normal service brake control.

Next, the Camaro power brake master has a 1-1/8" bore for use with a booster. The Camaro calipers have a 2-15/16" diameter piston with a traditional seal. Since there is no extra clearance to take up to apply the pads, there is no quick-take-up section to the master. But since there is more volume to be displaced, and less pressure required because of the larger caliper piston diameter, the master cylinder bore is larger.

The Camaro manual brake master is similar. It has a 1" bore to allow more pressure to be generated without the use of a booster. But it still is activating the large piston diameter, so the volume and pressure requirements are matched to this caliper. This master will work with the Metric calipers, but their volume requirement is less, since the piston diameter is smaller. But also, since the piston diameter is smaller, it requires more pressure from the master cylinder to create the same braking force. This is why you need a correctly-sized (smaller) master cylinder for proper pedal feel and pressure with manual brakes.

I am intentionally discounting the rear brakes since both vehicles use similarly sized brakes (9-1/2" x 2") with proportionally less difference in the wheel cylinder bore diameter: 7/8" or 3/4" for the S-10, and 7/8" for the Camaro.

HTH

Chuck
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Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby 73astregt » Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:54 pm

thanks chuck for the great explanation! i understand what you are saying totally. i just figure that the manual camaro master should be a lot better than the power version on the car now its pretty darn hard and at this stage anything is an improvement i realize i wont get the same pedal feel as a stock setup for a vega or monza but if its in between the two id be happier with it .im growing new muscles in my right leg now lol! some guys say the later monza master works good would you agree with that?
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Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby cosvega76 » Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:07 pm

Fred,

I used the 7/8" bore Monza master when I was using the single-piston S-10 front brakes. It worked well.

Chuck
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Re: manual brake rod solution anyone?

Postby 73astregt » Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:46 pm

ok chuck on the monza master what is the best one to use, what year, manual or power on the manual s10 setup? ill try that next if im not happy with the camaro manual master! just dont want to end up with too small of a bore and be back to cowpatty feeling brakes like the stock ones were.
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