Pontiac V8 H-Body

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Postby EagleFish » Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:58 am

Clyde,

I am an old Poncho guy. My first was a 1959 Bonneville convertible back in 1964 with a tri-power 389.

Yes, you are right, the Pontiac blocks are the same physical size all of the way back to the original 389 in 1959. Oh, the exception is when Pontiac cut the 389 in half to make a four banger way back in the early 60s. lol. :lol:

The weight difference in the various c. i. engines is not significant. So once decided to use a heavy Poncho block just go with the biggest. There is a good range of choices, i. e. - 301, 326, 350, 389, 400. However, the 5.0 Liter (301) never did perform like that of the Chevy 302. It was a big disappointment. So, it never caught on.

John (John and Richard)
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Postby bugdewde » Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:48 am

Yes.......... it can be done.
According to a recent ebay auction of a '77 Astre Formula in PA, I think, it can be done with 2 right side '66 Bonneville exhaust manifolds........... if memory serves me right.
I can't locate the auction to confirm. It was only a month or so ago. Maybe someone can recall............ it was Blue, still had the "Formula" on the doors and red interior(one T/A seat). No motor ........ but was set up for a Pontiac 350-400 I believe. There were a couple 301's available with the auction as well........ Wish I could pull it up....... I've always been a Pontiac guy and would love to do a 301 in an Astre....... as well as the Pontiac version of the old aluminum 215.
Yeah, the 301 is a dog...... but you can't kill it..... and it's about 100 lbs lighter for autocrossing/handling. I ran 200,000+ miles as a teenager(meaning VERY, VERY HARD!)
Anyway, according to the auction.......... it can, and has, been done.
Dwight

'72 Vega GT Kammback, 215 V8
'73 Vega Wagon - Currently in Limbo....
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Postby EagleFish » Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:24 pm

Dwight,

Yeah, your right that it is hard to kill a Ponco 301. I was trying to remember the stroke length. Was it 3"? Not much torque if I remember. That would account for it staying together.

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Postby bugdewde » Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:48 am

Dang, it's been 16 years since I had that car. Can't remember all the specs......... I have them in the basement, though. I'll get them tomorrow...... too tired tonight(0350).
Engine was turning a 2.73 rear gear. Wouldn't pull a greased string out of a rat's A$$. Honestly, it was the best motor I've ever had. Everywhere I went, it was floored on take off (teenager). A lot of the driving was in low2......(teenager) and it spent a lot of time in speeds in excess of the speed limit....(teenager). Had to swap rear ends due to the excessive neutral drops(teenager) that was required to get the rear wheel spinning!!! (dumb teenager).

They were much lighter than the traditional 326-up engines...... the interior exhaust ports were siamesed which limited flow modifications........... but it was a trooper. 9 years and 200,000++++ (teenager)miles and it never leaked or burnt a drop of oil. Had a lifter tick from day one, though.
Dwight

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'73 Vega Wagon - Currently in Limbo....
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Postby 2lucke4u » Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:08 am

Clyde is 100% right,,all pontiacs are big blocks,,for you firebird fans out there I have 6 waiting, or going thru a restoration at this time,,2-1968 hardtops,2-1967 hardtops,1- 1968 convertible,and a 1969 convertible motors range from 326cid to 455cid,,they are all interchange,,,post on,,,,,,,
Charles
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68 Firebird 400, 4sp,3.08 posi,black
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Postby bugdewde » Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:17 pm

From my old Haynes Firebird manual:

301 has a 4.0" bore x 3.0" stroke (the little 265 has a 3.75" bore & same 3" stroke)
'79(mine) 2 barrel 150 HP
8.2 Compression ratio
6.050" rods(265 also)
Intake valve 1.72"
Exhaust valve 1.5"

As previously said, the 301 is a dog. But if used in an Astre, it would provide excellent mileage(depending on rear ratio) and provide a decent amount of torque over the 140. Definitely no hot rod, but fun.

The larger displacement blocks could possibly be used without the specific conversion manifolds stated in the ebay auction by using a couple u-joints in the steering shaft like the big block and LS1 guys have used.......or utilizing block hugger headers possibly...........

Keep us posted........ I love the Ponticac mill idea in an Astre.
Dwight

'72 Vega GT Kammback, 215 V8
'73 Vega Wagon - Currently in Limbo....
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Postby res0o7eb » Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:06 am

EagleFish wrote:Tom,

I had two 1968 Firebird OHC-6s. Talk about a smooooth reving engine. One was a convertible 4-speed Sprint and the other was a hardtop auto. I salvaged the Sprint convertible from a field. The hood was off and the engine was on the ground. A tree had grown up through the engine bay. Had to remove the tree first. Sure wish I had them back. I don't have any pics, either. I really enjoyed them, though.

John



John,

Incredible story! That convertible is worth a few bucks to someone somewhere today.

If I could put an OHC-6 in my Astre without cutting it all up, I'd do it.

If you are at all interested in the Pontiac OHC-6, look here and drool:
http://primatechmotorsports.com/pmihome.htm

Also, in the "Our Cars and Projects" is a picture of a 76 Coswoth Vega.
So, there are more of us out there who like H-bodies and the OHC-6. I think there is a guy named Jeff (from Michigan?) who posts in both the H-Body and OHC-6 ezboards.

Tom
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Postby cammerjeff » Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:56 am

The Idiot OHC-6 Guy in MI is me, but I have been happily distracted for the last couple of years with my 78 Sunbird Safari. I must have some sort of six cylinder adiction as I have been playing with the 3.8 buick that is in it, and am starting to think about building the 4.1 I have for it.
Or maybee I just like odd Pontiac's. I still have my 3 sprint cars, 69 Firebird, 67 LeMans, & 66 Lemans, but haven't really paid much attention to them latly. Thinking of selling the 66 LeMans Sprint, Auto Factory A/C car if any one is interested.
I really would love to but a 400 Pontiac into a Astre, and really looked hard at that blue 77 formula from PA, but just couldn't justify adding anouther car to the herd at the moment. But it was just about perfect for a street/strip car, and shure would have been interesting towed behind the 78 Safari!!!!!
Jeff R

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Postby res0o7eb » Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:10 am

Back to the Pontiac V-8 swap. We were talking about using the Buick V-6 Bell-housing with a Pontiac block here:
http://forums.h-body.org/viewtopic.php?t=19565
Start with the second part of the fourth post in the thread above.

I see in an earlier post in this thread that Reid had already answered my question about bolting on a Buick V-6 B/H. So, is there a flywheel out there that will work?
I have a flywheel from a 301. Dia. is 14. Don't know how many teeth - not gonna count 'em either. Will this fit in the Buick V-6 B/H?
The register diameter on a 301 is smaller than all other Pontiacs. I have not found an aftermarket flywheel with the smaller register diameter.
Last edited by res0o7eb on Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby cammerjeff » Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:32 am

Tom,

I compared a 60's style pontiac V-8 flywheel, a 67 OHC-6 flywheel, and a 80 buick 231 flywheel. they are all compareable flywheel diameter of 13 1/4" with the exeption of the ring gear. the 2 pontiac ring gear are 13 7/8" diameter& the buick is 13 1/2". Sorry I don't have a 301 Manual Flywheel to compare. But if it is closer to the 231's ring gear diameter it should be do-able with alittle fabrication work.
The pontiac flywheel will fit inside a Biuck 231 H-body bellehousing, but is tight. I plan on running a T-400 or 2004R in my Astre so I won't have your issues.
I am interested in how your combo will work, you never know I might put a manual back in my Formula if it works out easy for you.
Jeff R

1971 Catalina Freeway Enforcer
77 Astre Formula, some day soon powered by a 215 Buick V-8
1973 4-speed Lemans Safari STOCK!!!!! 1978 Catalina Safari
2006 Mallet Solstice, 6.0 LS2, 6-speed manual
2009 Solstice Coupe, 2.4, 5-speed Manual
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Postby res0o7eb » Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:11 pm

Jeff,
Thanks for the info. My 301 Flywheel with ring gear could be 13 7/8" as you've measured on the V-8 and L-6 flywheels.
Yeah, if I can't hook the V-8 to my existing 4-speed manual set-up, then I would go with a 4-speed automatic. Probably a built 200-4R.
Last edited by res0o7eb on Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Tailssideup » Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:55 pm

What if you where to use a Pontaic V8 bellhousing and trans. Where would you run into issues there?
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Postby barebonesracecars » Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:44 pm

You'd have to use a hydraulic clutch set-up, most likely. The trans would not make a difference.
Reid

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Postby Tailssideup » Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:55 pm

Ok then, second question. Has anyone ever shoved an M22 (rock crusher) into an H-body?
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Postby greg72 » Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:47 am

I had a Muncie trans in my Vega for a few years. I believe it was an M21 it was a looong time ago.

The car is a 72, so no torque arm, just factory four link rear suspension. I used a Hurst Competition Plus shift. I don't remember what the application was for the kit and handle , but I still have it so I can get the part numbers for you if you need them. And no the shifter is not for sale....it takes up very little storage space. :lol: Unfortunately the trans is long gone. I would love to have another one, but have a hard time justifying the asking prices that or out there, especially when compared to a strong 5 spd trans.

I used the factory bellhousing with the clutch cable. It worked ok , only had to replace the cable once.

The car ran mid to high 13's in the 1/4 spinning almost all of first and sometimes even some of second gear. Mild SBC, 3.08 or so rear gear maybe 3.23 (i have had so many rears in the car I can't remember) and Street tires.
Greg
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