3800 SC H-Body Swap (update)

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Re: 3800 Supercharged H-Body Swap

Postby 72 SS PNL » Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:11 am

yeah the northstar tb i think is the same as the LS1 , being 75mm , i think the 4.3 v6 got 70's

just hit me up when you are ready , not the best pictures , but here is a link to the f-body 3.8 headers - http://pacesetterexhaust.com/95-02-cama ... aders.aspx
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Re: 3800 Supercharged H-Body Swap

Postby rustneversleeps » Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:19 am

Old school logic is figure three ways to do it and one is bound to work, In theory anyway =)


BTW, I can't log into my vegastre account for some reason...Hmmmm... for now I am 'rustneversleeps'.

If anyone's wondering how I plan on fabricating the space for the the throttle body at the rear of the SC? Just picture some of the early Ford vans with the removable engine and trans tunnel. Our nickname was "Pop Top". Large deals that would just unsnap and give you all the access you needed sitting in the passenger and drivers seat. I plan on using this design but a much smaller version. I will not be sitting in a seat but rather on my knees under the dash but with plenty of access. In theory anyway =)
BTW, rustneversleeps is vegastre
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Re: 3800 Supercharged H-Body Swap

Postby 72 SS PNL » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:13 am

if you are gonna keep the rear facing(in your case) tb , why not put the air filter in the cowl area and pull air right from the base of the windshield , there is alot of room in there
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Re: 3800 Supercharged H-Body Swap

Postby rustneversleeps » Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:27 pm

put the air filter in the cowl area and pull air right from the base of the windshield , there is alot of room in there


Excellent idea,
The filter would have to be in an enclosed box since the cowl vents are open to the elements. This would need to be on the passenger side as the windshield wiper motor, arms are on the driver side. Lots of design and measuring so I'll just add it to the list but the base of the windshield is great for pulling cool ram air.
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Re: 3800 Supercharged H-Body Swap

Postby maliburacinfreak » Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:15 pm

ive been seriously considering this swap for my monza. i found a guy that did the swap in his 4th gen f-body, heres how he fixed the rear tb problem...

Image

heres the link to his photobucket with other pics of the swap...
http://s15.photobucket.com/albums/a370/ ... 6QQtppZZ20
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Re: 3800 Supercharged H-Body Swap

Postby vegastre » Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:22 pm

All I can say is wow! That is something else. I think I saw this. It was a Camaro.

Believe it or not I actually like the TB in the cowl area. You ask why? Its cosmetics, I want the Supercharger to look simple and comfortable siting in the engine bay and not shoehorned in with a over fabrication look. This may not be possible but I am going to try.

I did some more measuring this weekend on the Astre and the rear TB will extend 11 inches into the firewall area, call it a foot. Interesting enough the Supercharger will fit under the stock hood. Of course the firewall will need to be radically altered but the cowl cavity not so much at the very top.

I don't think a Monza will be a whole lot different so stay tuned. I will be doing the swap/mock up/fab over the winter months and assembly spring 2013. Not sure I will do a Project Journal because this basically is just an engine swap. I will admit an unusual one at that.
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Re: 3800 Supercharged H-Body Swap

Postby maliburacinfreak » Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:14 pm

it was a firebird but close enough. you should definitely do a project journal as im sure this engine swap will be quite the project! i actually have a set of hedman headers for the 231 that is currently in my monza. do you know if theyll work on the newer heads? also i was thinking about the 90s SC t-birds, they have a pipe that mounts to the back of the SC and brings the tb around the pass side, kinda like what this guy fabbed up. im wondering if it could be adapted to fit the GM motor. they both use the eaton M90 but i know they still have differences
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Re: 3800 Supercharged H-Body Swap

Postby vegastre » Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:24 pm

i actually have a set of hedman headers for the 231 that is currently in my monza. do you know if theyll work on the newer heads?


The Buick 231 headers will not fit the 3800. The 3800 heads are completely different, in fact the whole motor is different. Doing some rough measurements the 3800 is a more compact design. Even though it is a 90 degree motor it is more narrow than the 231 by two inches. The good news is I think on paper that the Camaro RWD 3800 exhausts will fit the H-body with little or no mods. This is because of a more compact head design.

also i was thinking about the 90s SC t-birds, they have a pipe that mounts to the back of the SC and brings the tb around th



Ya, I looked at the T-Bird SC and this Supercharger looks to be made at a 90 to accommodate the TB. Even though it is a M-90 I doubt it will work. In fact, looking around the net no one seems to have made this mod. Just from my measurements even TBSC or a modified SC will require some H-Body Firewall modifications. Just no getting around that.


you should definitely do a project journal as im sure this engine swap will be quite the project!


Right, at some point I most likely will do a Journal. The one thing I will document in detail is the layout of the PCM and associated wiring harness. Believe it or not I am looking forward to this puzzle. I plan on using OB2 PCM for a SC and not sure if I will do a a custom tune or just send it out for a program. I only plan on using like six sensors total.
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Re: 3800 Supercharged H-Body Swap

Postby ferry6 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:04 pm

Is it true that enhancing and polishing your 3800 performance heads will void the manufacturer's warranty?
3800 performance heads
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Re: 3800 Supercharged H-Body Swap

Postby vegastre » Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:08 pm

As far as ZZP I can't get them to return any of my phone calls and from what I read the Jury is still out on this company. Buddy of mine hates them and refuses to order anything from them and he has a pretty nice shop. That's all I have to say about that.

As far as porting I all ways do a little pocket clean up on any set of heads I run and beyond that requires a lot of head work to gain significant power. More money than I would like to spend on a street motor.
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Re: 3800 Supercharged H-Body Swap

Postby 72 SS PNL » Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:05 pm

i deal with zzp at work , and they are a pain sometimes , and always have been , for personal stuff and from what i know from others generally their stuff is good and problem free

zoomer is a wealth of knowledge if you catch him right
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Re: 3800 Supercharged H-Body Swap

Postby vegastre » Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:47 pm

UPDATE : Feb/2013 : SUPERCHARGER

I know everyone here like pictures so I uploaded a few. I won't go into detail other than I have rebuilt the Blower and all looks good. Internals looked surprising decent with below average wear. I have ordered a new coupler which seems to be a weak link with the 3800 SC. Next I will go through the heads, do a little pocket porting clean up and see if they need a valve job. Hopefully I will have the motor ready to go by June or so.
Attachments
SC1.JPG
SC1.JPG (184.69 KiB) Viewed 1385 times
SC2.JPG
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SC3.JPG
SC3.JPG (171.1 KiB) Viewed 1385 times
SC4.JPG
SC4.JPG (136.54 KiB) Viewed 1385 times
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Re: 3800 SC H-Body Swap (update)

Postby vegastre » Sat May 18, 2013 11:25 pm

UPDATE: (May 2013)

Swap is in the mock up stage. Lot of measuring with this design. The following pics are of the motor mounts fabricated from Energy Suspension bushings, quarter plate and 1-3/4 125 wall tube. Designed so they would rest on the stock frame stands.
Attachments
mm1.JPG
Plate
mm1.JPG (126.03 KiB) Viewed 1274 times
mm1a.JPG
Set Up
mm1a.JPG (126.01 KiB) Viewed 1274 times
mm2.JPG
Weld and Sandblasted
mm2.JPG (211.14 KiB) Viewed 1274 times
mm3.JPG
Painted and Assembled with Bushings
mm3.JPG (178.11 KiB) Viewed 1274 times
mm4.JPG
Installed Resting On Frame Stands
mm4.JPG (167.3 KiB) Viewed 1274 times
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Re: 3800 SC H-Body Swap (update)

Postby vegastre » Sat May 18, 2013 11:59 pm

Let me preface with saying the mock up is being done with my 72 Vega but this build is for my Astre wagon. Although it may look like it no cutting was done on the Vega for this swap. The 72 Vega rests under a Lean-too of sturdy construction keeping the Vega out of the elements. Its well cared for but the car is a bit worn and very solid with no rust other than surface discoloration. The Vega is tentatively a 2014 restore project back to mostly factory stock. I have all the parts =)

Today was a fairly important day and I'll tell you why. Up until I saw the Supercharger in the car in 3-D I had not fully decided this deal would actually all fit. I had my doubts but now I am pretty sure I can pull this off without it looking like a out of control bastardization. Not sure the pics do it justice but it looks pretty impressive sitting down in the engine compartment. It's exceeded my mental pictures I have been collecting. I'm sure its not everyone's cup of tea but this is a Hot Rod.

The most curious part of the swap is the Throttle Body and how it all fits. Well, I was pleasantly surprised to find it only protrudes beyond the firewall 4 inches. At this early date it appears I have plenty of room for most all the coming fabrication and get this, the oil pan will fit with just a little persuasion with the BFH. Rocking down the highway.
Attachments
vega1.JPG
The Vega
vega1.JPG (164.66 KiB) Viewed 1274 times
vega2.JPG
The Motor
vega2.JPG (170.95 KiB) Viewed 1274 times
vega3.JPG
Throttle Body Clearance
vega3.JPG (144.68 KiB) Viewed 1274 times
vega4.JPG
Tight Fit
vega4.JPG (140.92 KiB) Viewed 1274 times
vega5.JPG
Not a tight fit Really =)
vega5.JPG (106.01 KiB) Viewed 1274 times
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Re: 3800 Supercharged H-Body Swap

Postby BillPappy » Sun May 19, 2013 1:28 pm

maliburacinfreak wrote:ive been seriously considering this swap for my monza. i found a guy that did the swap in his 4th gen f-body, heres how he fixed the rear tb problem...

Image

heres the link to his photobucket with other pics of the swap...
http://s15.photobucket.com/albums/a370/ ... 6QQtppZZ20



I like this, what I had planned was a SC from a holden. Throttle body was on the wrong side.
It's hard for an old street racer to stay on the safe side of stupid

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