AFR Eliminator Heads with Hooker 2129 Headers

[EVL VEGA]

Hello all.
I think it's time for me to upgrade the heads on my 406 Vega. It currently has ported/polished iron heads of unknown specs. (i'm going to cc them after i tear everything down next Friday) I believe these heads are running out of air at the top end.
I'm leaning towards the AFR Eliminator 65cc 210cc heads. However, these are angle plug heads only. I know my stock straight plug iron heads clear my 2129 headers but take a few yoga techniques to change plugs. Anyone know if these heads will work with my headers?
Don't want to have a new problem when I'm trying to reassemble everything.
I did some forum searching first but didn't find this specific setup. Just stuff like "your angle plugs heads will probably work".
See below for my dented up headers (they were like that when i bought the car) and dirty engine compartment.

P.S. I see the note in AFR heads that "Exhaust port is raised .250 over GM L98". Does that have any bearing on my 70-72 400? Will the headers have to be moved up? Sorry never changed heads before.

Thanks for your help.

[Monza Harry]

L98 Now I have to ask which casting numbers, as the nomenclature has engulfed the cast iron heads and possibly two versions of aluminum. The '113 Aluminum heads already have a 0.200 raised exhaust, so I assume you are refereeing to the Cast Iron version, (which has a stock location Exhaust port from the AFR reference). So if your headers are on "CI" heads and your headers have the only exhaust port offered by hooker for an H-Body they match but not the AFR's. If the heads are aluminum and the headers have already been changed to the raised exhaust version you are going to be close, but still you are going to be 0.050" short, so I would expect some issues with header fitment. If the headers haven't been modified the they are to low on the port and blocking it and causing serious flow issues. Now if you look at this link you will see GM leaves the bolt holes in the same spot and just raises the ports, as for AFR I am not sure. The headers will bolt up but that will result in the ports being partially blocked. Sorry for the late "Edit" My laptop decided to Restart in the middle of my corrections, I can't type as fast as I think so I frequently have to re-sort my thoughts into "Human English" from D b @$$ Harry http://www.lingenfelter.com/mm5/merchan ... iW2ZJWFPmg

[EVL VEGA]

L98 Now I have to ask which casting numbers, as the nomenclature has engulfed the cast iron heads and possibly two versions of aluminum. The '113 Aluminum heads already have a 0.200 raised exhaust, so I assume you are refereeing to the Cast Iron version, (which has a stock location Exhaust port from the AFR reference). So if your headers are on "CI" heads and your headers have the only exhaust port offered by hooker for an H-Body they match but not the AFR's. If the heads are aluminum and the headers have already been changed to the raised exhaust version you are going to be close, but still you are going to be 0.050" short, so I would expect some issues with header fitment. If the headers haven't been modified the they are to low on the port and blocking it and causing serious flow issues. Now if you look at this link you will see GM leaves the bolt holes in the same spot and just raises the ports, as for AFR I am not sure. The headers will bolt up but that will result in the ports being partially blocked. Sorry for the late "Edit" My laptop decided to Restart in the middle of my corrections, I can't type as fast as I think so I frequently have to re-sort my thoughts into "Human English" from D b @$$ Harry http://www.lingenfelter.com/mm5/merchan ... iW2ZJWFPmg

Still not quite sure what you mean. I assume you're just talking in general terms about the l98. Since my motor is not an l98. It's a 400 casting number 3951511.
As for the current heads i haven't pulled the covers in some time but the foundry mark indicate their casting numbers are 3998997 or 3951598. Probably the latter.
I'm positive that AFR would raise the holes along with the port. They are one of if not the best head makers out there.
Also I've read even though it's raised .250 that is measured in the vertical plane. However the heads sit at a 45 degree angle which means the raised distance would be a little less than that.

Nevertheless i have an email into AFR asking a few of these questions about the raised exhaust port.

I asked this same question on the Facebook group "Chevy Vega Owners Club aka "Vega Nation" and the general consensus is that it will work but no talk about the raised ports.

[EVL VEGA]

Here's my followup email and response from AFR:

From: EVL VEGA
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 7:29 AM
To: Rob Wood
Subject: Re: New Quote Request -

Another quick question. I see a note on these heads that say "Exhaust port is raised .250 over GM L98"
How does that relate to a raise comparatively in my 70-71 400 iron heads. Was l98 already raised above the pre 1985 heads and your raising it .250 more? The Vega engine compartment is already tight enough i just want to make sure i don't have issues putting my headers back on.

Thanks,
EVL VEGA

From: Rob Wood <RWood@airflowresearch.com>
Today at 8:41 AM
To: EVL VEGA
Our port will be .250” raised over your 400 head. GM did not change port location on L98

[Monza Harry]

Sorry I didn't make that clear, there is some confusion on the boards about what/which heads are the L98 heads The aluminum version has Raised Ports. From the link and my research all GM heads with raised ports, only the port is raised! Not the bolt holes, so this means that the header will be centered to the bolt holes and not the port, So NO interchangeability between exhausts, so if AFR is the same (and I believe they are, as many header manufacturers offer an "aftermarket head flange") that means the headers will bolt right up, however the flange in this case will block the top 1/4" of the exhaust port, I would think the added height would be only a problem with the tightest chassis fits (ours would qualify) but one that the average "Hot Rodder" should be able to easily overcome. The angle situation ends up all but negated as the manifold flange is nearly vertical in the car (I don't know the actual angle, but it is very low visually). I have been reading up on this, as both sets of heads I have for my car have the 0.200" raised ports, [ZZ4/Vette/LT1/LT4/FastBurn and some places list the L98 in their lists for this port configuration] so I have to come up with exhaust to fit my problem child as well. However the suggested gasket for your {head of choice} http://www.airflowresearch.com/index.php?cPath=24_33 appears to be centered http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/f ... plications and that would be good news for you, the "More Info" really didn't clear anything up for me. Sorry I didn't help much but at least you are now aware that your headers may or may not have fitment issues, I would ask AFR if this would be the problem, list headers make and model number with direct info on port matching in your next contact with them. Harry

[EVL VEGA]

Sorry I didn't make that clear, there is some confusion on the boards about what/which heads are the L98 heads The aluminum version has Raised Ports. From the link and my research all GM heads with raised ports, only the port is raised! Not the bolt holes, so this means that the header will be centered to the bolt holes and not the port, So NO interchangeability between exhausts, so if AFR is the same (and I believe they are, as many header manufacturers offer an "aftermarket head flange") that means the headers will bolt right up, however the flange in this case will block the top 1/4" of the exhaust port, I would think the added height would be only a problem with the tightest chassis fits (ours would qualify) but one that the average "Hot Rodder" should be able to easily overcome. The angle situation ends up all but negated as the manifold flange is nearly vertical in the car (I don't know the actual angle, but it is very low visually). I have been reading up on this, as both sets of heads I have for my car have the 0.200" raised ports, [ZZ4/Vette/LT1/LT4/FastBurn and some places list the L98 in their lists for this port configuration] so I have to come up with exhaust to fit my problem child as well. However the suggested gasket for your {head of choice} http://www.airflowresearch.com/index.php?cPath=24_33 appears to be centered http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/f ... plications and that would be good news for you, the "More Info" really didn't clear anything up for me. Sorry I didn't help much but at least you are now aware that your headers may or may not have fitment issues, I would ask AFR if this would be the problem, list headers make and model number with direct info on port matching in your next contact with them. Harry

I understand now. I appreciate the clarification.
I sent another email to AFR asking specifically about the raised ports/bolt holes and if my hooker 2129's will bolt straight up.
Effectively just raising my exhaust at the front 1/4".

[EVL VEGA]

I started tearing down the motor yesterday.
Should finish pulling the heads tonight. I really really hope there are some good sized valve reliefs. I don't want to have to flycut my pistons.

[chevyart]

hey evl maybe a little clay, a good measuring device and some thicker head gaskets will get you by. it is the way many builders find out the piston to valve clearance, and then act with a certain head gasket thickness. the price of some of the thicker gaskets will make you cry. they even make a shim along with the gasket to raise up the head. all this will affect your compression in a negative way. someone can advise you as to the piston to valve clearance. pretty sure the exhaust valve clearance is the critical one and is usually checked before and after tdc. all depends on the cam overlap. goods luck art

[Monza Harry]

You can do this with out a teardown, not very cheap but doable if you want. Harry http://www.summitracing.com/int/search/ ... ner=SREPD4

[EVL VEGA]

Tore down the Vega on Friday night and had some good news. Turns out the pistons are forged flat tops with valve reliefs. The previous owner said it was "stock bottom end". The pistons are also down in the hole pretty far. I'm going to order the AFR 210's today.

P.S. The steel head casting number is 3998993. I rough cc'ed the stock head intake runner and came out with 165. Stock intake/exhaust ports 1.94/1.50. These heads are stamped with some racing company info but if they did anything they didn't do much.

[chevyart]

hey rhett: i would still do the clay test to be certain you have proper piston to valve clearance. you are using a head that is new to this engine, with bigger valves, and your cam is fairly healthy in lift and duration. checking this out should be easy for you to do, and is worth the effort. nothing is ever just "bolt on" with these hi-po engines. you probably want a little over .100 clearance, mayvbe even more on exhaust side. dont know the exact answer on your valve to piston clearancv. let us know your results. we all learn from each others experiences. art

[Fastmax32168]

I can tell you that the older style AFR 210 heads with raised ports that I have on my Mirage totally messed up the fit on the Don Hardy headers that I used, pulling them up to the point where they hit the floorpans. I had to basically extend every header tube by cutting and rewelding it in order to get them to work. I guess I should quantify that these headers were new and had never been on the car before, but I am pretty convinced it was the raised exhaust ports that caused the issue.
Roy

[TOM71VEGA]

To EVL VEGA

How does your car run on the street with the spool.

[EVL VEGA]

hey rhett: i would still do the clay test to be certain you have proper piston to valve clearance. you are using a head that is new to this engine, with bigger valves, and your cam is fairly healthy in lift and duration. checking this out should be easy for you to do, and is worth the effort. nothing is ever just "bolt on" with these hi-po engines. you probably want a little over .100 clearance, mayvbe even more on exhaust side. dont know the exact answer on your valve to piston clearancv. let us know your results. we all learn from each others experiences. art

I absolutely am still going to clay test the PTV clearance. I don't want to find out the hard way i have interference.

[EVL VEGA]

To EVL VEGA

How does your car run on the street with the spool.

Runs great. It's a little chirpy/squealy in the corners but not too bad. I think it was worse when i ran ET streets since they gripped more than my Sportsman Pros. Race parts on the street are a hassle but sure are fun. This is my 7 year old daughter's face when she's in the Vega after i romp on it.