Long water pump question

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Long water pump question

Postby spyderhunter » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:20 pm

I am looking at an engine dress up kit on Ebay from Skip White with the chrome alternator, power steering pump, long water pump, and pulleys with belts #371651041586. I finally bought a 400 sbc to rebuild with a small cam and stock heads and Quadrapuke for my Mirage that has been patiently waiting 7 yrs in the garage (+ 17 yrs in Arizona before I got it).I wasn't going to tear it down because it actually runs pretty nice, but the guy said it smokes a little sometimes, and I don't want to take it back out later, so I will get er done now.
My question is, Will that kit be ok if I use an aluminum radiator (Champion) with a 14" electric fan, and do you think the steering shaft will clear the power steering pump? I know it is 3/4" longer than the short water pump. Also, would I be better off with two smaller electric fans to maybe free up a little extra room in the middle if needed?
Thanks for any advice. I haven't been on here for quite a while; building a house, losing a job (Paper mill shut down) almost got a divorce, kid in college ..... You know, Life! So I hope to get the old girl (the mirage) back on her feet so I can actually drive it someday. Most of the body work is done but still a shell and a lot of work to go, but I hope to have it moving under power this summer. Thanks again.
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Re: Long water pump question

Postby cjbiagi » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:46 pm

I don't see how a long water pump would fit, my "short" pump barely clears the Griffin aluminum radiator I have. As far as the steering shaft clearing the power steering, not sure what you mean by that. That's how they came stock and the shaft is nowhere near the pump at least in the stock position. A 14" electric fan may be marginal, are you talking about a pusher or puller? I assume a pusher since you are talking about a long water pump. I use the stock 7 blade mechanical fan along with a electric pusher as a back up, with the addition of the Griffin radiator the electric seldom comes on. All of my accessories are chrome as well, many pieces are just the stock parts I had chromed. The alternator I bought chrome as well as the water pump. For that I use a 72-80 Corvette "short" pump which has the 3/4" fan pilot that matches the Monza fan.
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Re: Long water pump question

Postby spyderhunter » Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:27 pm

Ok, that's why I was asking. Is the Griffin any different or better than the Champion? I just want to make sure it stays cool. I didn't know if NOT using the stock fan would save the extra room needed for the long water pump. It has been 30 yrs. since I have worked on a Monza (other than tearing mine apart 7 yrs ago) so I cannot remember much about the clearance issue areas, but I do remember things are close. I'm sure it will all come back to me once I actually get working on the install, but I hope to have things right before I get to that. Your engine looks awesome by the way! I hope to meet you Monza Gurus when I make the road trip to one of the gatherings when it's done. Thanks for the input, I won't bother with that kit then ( it just looked cool!)
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Re: Long water pump question

Postby cjbiagi » Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:21 pm

I know there is a huge difference in price between the Champion and Griffin. However, the Griffin is a direct fit, it also has the correct curved inlet neck to clear the power steering pump and cools great. I can't speak of the Champion since I don't have one. Everything fits tight on these cars, you can't assume what works on another smallblock will work in the H body chassis. Be sure what you are buying will actually work.......keep asking questions........
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Re: Long water pump question

Postby Monza Harry » Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:05 pm

Spydy!, as Clyde mentions the Monza/H's have a high left mount P/S pump. The more generic General's mounting would be in the steering box and maybe the "we'll call it the frame" as well, not much room where the general usually mounts them with the H-Bodies and a V8. Clyde you need to warn us or use a filter with all the retina burning chrome bling! [emoji with shades right here! :D There aren't many "Off the Shelf" parts that are specific to the H-Body, but as Clyde mentioned there are some parts you can choose on your own to add plenty of Shine as Clyde's car readily shows. Now if you have your heart really set on the long pump with out P/S you could do like many of the early Vega engine swappers did and push the rad into the nose about an inch or two for some breathing room. Harry
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Re: Long water pump question

Postby spyderhunter » Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:49 pm

I gave that some thought Harry. But why would you not be able to use the P/S with the long pump? The kit I was looking at mounted the P/S pump down on the lower drivers side block. I honestly couldn't remember exactly how it was mounted normally, but it looked pretty tight. They just don't have the kit with the short pump, that's why I was asking. But I don't have my heart set on anything really, except getting it together. The chrome stuff can wait if I have to. I just want to hear it rumble! 30 yrs is too long without a ride in a Monza. My last spyder was a black 1980 w/ 327, and paint so smooth you could count the hairs on your arm 5-6 feet from the car. A lot of blocking,wet sanding and buffing. Can't wait to get to that part.... I'm getting the fever!!!
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Re: Long water pump question

Postby cjbiagi » Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:58 pm

The problem is lack of clearance between the front of the pump and the radiator. Has nothing to do with power steering
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Re: Long water pump question

Postby spyderhunter » Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:01 pm

That's what I thought.
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Re: Long water pump question

Postby cjbiagi » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:29 pm

I kind of like the power steering pump mounted up higher. It gives the front of the engine a more symmetrical look.
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Re: Long water pump question

Postby Monza Harry » Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:01 pm

spyderhunter wrote:I gave that some thought Harry.
Front of LWP SBC.jpg
LWP on SBC
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But why would you not be able to use the P/S with the long pump? .... I'm getting the fever!!!

Well see where that pump is? Now go to this thread and take a peek at the Steering box location: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=20344 This board will not let me post that picture for some reason about 10 or 11 posts down Zeke has a great pic showing the steering box through the rad opening. That should show you why GM used a unique PS pump bracket and such a difficult rad to reproduce (well cheaply any ways). The share the same real estate. Harry [I'll try and edit that picture in later, maybe it will work then] download/file.php?id=2921 Or I could do this!
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Re: Long water pump question

Postby 67shovel » Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:08 pm

Long pumps don't fit Vega's and Monza's. Although anything is possible, you need to start with a SHORT SBC water pump and then start trying to hang P/S on it. If you alt. tucks up close like the pic, it's the long pump and you need to start over IMHO. With the short pumps the alt is out much further w/ longer belts. Vettes ran the short pumps up to 1982 I believe. Might help finding pulleys and brackets.
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Re: Long water pump question

Postby 75Monz » Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:10 pm

If you want to do that, probably only way is to buy everything individual like this https://www.ebay.com/itm/Small-Block-Ch ... Swk-1aFG7l
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevy-SBC-350- ... SwZtlaA0xQ
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Short-Water-Pu ... SwEK9T0SXi
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Small-Block-Ch ... SwcXVZ82PI
Depends on how you want your configuration to look on which parts to order. Had to do it this way on my 71 GMC to get serpentine added.
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Re: Long water pump question

Postby spyderhunter » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:55 pm

I have the original Monza pulleys and ps pump and alternator still. The new stuff looked nice but obviously is a pain for me to modify to fit the Monza. I'm not looking to get too complicated and add any extra time to get this thing back together. I have waited too long, and am less patient than I used to be! I guess I will use what I have in order to get it running and see how it goes. Maybe other mods will come later, but for now, I think I'm taking the easier route. I appreciate everyone's input and knowledge of these great little cars. I will be selling some of the parts I have collected that I won't be needing. I just need to get them listed when I get some extra time. Please don't ask what I have yet, because I have to go through it all first. Off the top of my head, I CAN tell you I do have several kinds of inner door panels, a bunch of door mirrors, shift consoles and dash panels and gauges. I also have a brand new old stock air filter cover and the original dual tail pipe exhaust piece that has some light scale on it, but is very solid and could be cleaned up easily (the chrome tips are there but have rust on them also.) I will let you guys know when I am ready to part with them. Thanks again.
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