The 151 is worthy I think?

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Postby Sirshredalot » Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:38 pm

Old mitsu teo4h...

Not many people want them because theyre so small, but i think itd be ok for use on a low rpm motor.

Rebuild kits are cheap so I was thinking of puting together a turbo 3.0 4cyl....somthing low boost(4-5 psi)...just for fun.

Need a turbo?

God bless
-Shred
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Postby Tailssideup » Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:59 am

Im probably gonna need a turbo soon. But I just got an offer I really dont want to refuse. A 2.2 Ecotec with wiring harness and computer, pulled for 550, with only 24000 miles on it. Slap in Sunbird, get Solstice trans and figure out hydrolics and bam I have a pretty good starting point for modifications.
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Postby Sirshredalot » Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:53 am

careful....those ecotecs have around 10:1 compression.

dont lean on the turbo too hard without an intercooler and methanol injection.
I'll probably never do anything with the turbo setup....send me a pm if you want it....cheap.

God bless
-Shred
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Postby res0o7eb » Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:31 am

Sirshredalot wrote:...duno what the rod length is though because the 181 uses the same pistons and crank as the 151.
The 181 uses a different crank. The stroke is increased from 3.00" to 3.60" on the 181.

Tailssideup wrote:A 2.2 Ecotec with wiring harness and computer, pulled for 550, with only 24000 miles on it. Slap in Sunbird, get Solstice trans and figure out hydrolics and bam I have a pretty good starting point for modifications.
Nice score! You might just be the first to put an EcoTec in an H-Body. Go for it!
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Postby NixVegaGT » Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:51 am

The mitsu turbo is a bit small for the engine I think. The problem is it starts limiting engine potential. You can actually do a bit better with an NA engine.

If it was me I'd look for a k26 off of an Audi 5000 of old. Nice sized T3 and a bit unwanted due to the turbo wars for size out there. Another VERY plentiful option is a Chrystler turbo. It's a Garrett T3. The drawback is the exhaust flange is wrong. Pretty cheap though. If you were building your own exhaust flange though…

Here's looking out, Shred. If you haven't built a turbo engine yet, I'll tell you, it's a bucket of fun! TONS of power for little money. I built a REALLY nasty 2.2L Chrystler turbo for my GLHs project for about $1650. Man that was fun. It hauled like a really beast.

I ended up with full 3" exhaust from the flange back. Just the pipe with no muffler. It actually wasn't that loud, and a blow-off valve from an eagle talon. You could pretty much use any blow-off valve BTW. The polymer ones break a lot but if you buy a bunch of them you can just pop'em off and slap on a new one easy. I killed two of them in as many years but I was running 17psi with a 20psi peak. I found the late VW blow-off valves are really cheap because the "ricey" guys love to spend money on stuff like upgrading them. You can get'em for like $12. LOL! It was fun to drive and had that addictive fffffffffsssssshhhhhhtt… PPPppppfffeewwwwww… FUN!
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Postby Tailssideup » Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:36 pm

Back on the topic of 151's, did anybody see in the Fiero thread that the race team had a better car with the 2 valve head compared to the Cosworth 4 valve DOHC?
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Postby NixVegaGT » Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:46 pm

Yeah, sorry guys. I meant that whole story in regard to the 3.0l turbo idea. HOT.
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Postby res0o7eb » Sun Mar 16, 2008 2:07 pm

spyder_xlch wrote:If that engine was a 181 and my boss puts the pistons in his 151 that should lower the compression to about 5:1:lol: Should have checked the stroke. I asked if he wanted to keep the crank but he said he had a few good cranks. Oh well.
So, I checked into this. I could be wrong and you guys will tell me.
The Pontiac 151 rotating component dimensions:
3.00" Stroke
6.00" Rod Length
1.60" Piston Compression Height
0.9272" Piston Pin Diameter
2.100": Rod Main Journal Diameter (thanks, Nate!)
9.125": Block Deck Height (Crank-to-Deck Clearance)
So, the piston sits 0.025" below the deck at TDC.

Notice the Rod Length and Stroke of the 151.

The Mercury Marine 181 has a 3.600" Stroke. The crank throw is 0.300" longer than the Pontiac 151. If everything else is equal, the Rod Length of the Mercury Marine 181 would need to be 0.300" shorter at 5.700". So, the 151 pistons would fit in a 181 with no problems assuming that the 181 uses a 5.700" Rod.
These 6.000" and 5.700" Rod Lengths makes sense and don't appear to be arbitrary. These are the two most common small block Chevy size rod lengths.

KB lists KB223 flat-top piston for the 77-78 Pontiac 151 which gives about 9.0:1 static compression ratio.
They have a compression ratio calculator on their web-site. http://kb-silvolite.com/calc.php?action=comp
Inputting some reasonable numbers and I came up with the 9.0:1 CR as shown below.
The same numbers, but with the stroke increase for the Mercury Marine 181, is a whopping 10.5:1 CR as shown below!

I also added the information for the dynamic CR from the Cam Card on my Schneider Cam - see specs in a previous post.
Attachments
181_cu.in.CompressionRatio_.030.JPG
181_cu.in.CompressionRatio_.030.JPG (62.79 KiB) Viewed 2074 times
151_cu.in.CompressionRatio_.030.JPG
151_cu.in.CompressionRatio_.030.JPG (64.61 KiB) Viewed 2073 times
Last edited by res0o7eb on Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby FastIndy » Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:26 am

Hey guys, I'm the starter of the 151 thread over on the Fiero board. :D

I've been working on the Super Duty for about 4 years now and in my search for parts or information I hope I've helped to put alot of information about the 151 and in particular the SD in one place.

I was always somewhat skeptical of the 151 4cyls - even my own - until my engine was put together and I saw this for the first time:
Image

3 years later:
Image
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/F ... CF1273.jpg

And now:
Image

Far from done still, but I've established a great deal of respect for this little motor.

P.S. The rod journal bearings are 2.100", or SBC big journal.

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Postby res0o7eb » Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:37 am

Welcome, Nate!
I think it took me 3 hours to go through that entire thread over on the Fiero Forum. Amazing things that you are doing. Thanks for the inspiration.
You have a couple of nice engines, there. I am extremely jealous!!!! 8)

I hope you get these installed, soon.
If the DOHC was put in an Astre, you would have the first Cosworth Astre. Of course the car and the engine are about a decade apart.
Still will be awesome no matter what it ends up in.
Last edited by res0o7eb on Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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TURBO 3.0L

Postby Vega75randy » Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:40 am

Come on guys lets not let this die off. IF it was not for having al kinds of V6 parts I'd pull the 140 out of my Vega and do a full on EFI turbo 3.0L and built 700R4 and possibly mini-tub with 10" slicks. LETS GO RACING!!!!!!!!!! :lol:
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Postby res0o7eb » Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:08 pm

It looks like regular, cast aluminum pistons for a Pontiac 301 would work in the 151.
There are two advantages:
1. Flat top (no dish) means higher 9.0:1 compression.
2. Dirt cheap. Buy 8 301 pistons for less than 4 151 pistons.
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151/181 Distributors

Postby res0o7eb » Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:06 am

Mallory makes a couple of distributors for the 151/181:
Magnetic Pickup:
http://www.ebasicpower.com/pc/MAL9-2630 ... +GM+L4+MBI
Dual Point
http://bpi.ebasicpower.com/ebinfo.php?pn=MAL9-26106
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Re: The 151 is worthy I think?

Postby NixVegaGT » Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:31 am

We never really talked about weight BTW. The reference I found was 350lbs. Not bad. So back to the SBC head idea: I bet you could loose some of that weight with an aluminum head… just givin' a poke here. I suppose the cam is different though. Or would the non-crossflow cam work for the SBC head??
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Re: The 151 is worthy I think?

Postby res0o7eb » Wed Dec 23, 2009 2:12 am

Been a while.
Nic,
The valve pattern on my non-cross flow head is EIIEEIIE, which appears to be the same as a SBC head.
But, I'd go for the Pontiac version of the SBC head if I didn't find a SD4 head.
I haven't pulled the trigger on the Mercruiser big-port, big-valve head, yet. For now, I may just rebuild the Pontiac 151 head - pocket porting and bigger valves, perhaps.

Did I mention that I have a stroker crank from a Mercruiser 140 (181 cu. in.)? It's been to the machine shop - checked out good, so I had the journals were polished.

I purchased a Clifford Research intake manifold and a Mallory dual-point distributor last summer.

I just recently obtained a NIB Hooker Header PN 4701 from someone in New Mexico.
A member here on H-body posted the craiglist ad - viewtopic.php?f=52&t=29163
I didn't know that Hooker made a header for this engine/application.
Here's the proof:
Attachments
Hooker4701.jpg
Hooker4701.jpg (100.07 KiB) Viewed 1626 times
Hooker4701Sheet_top-section.jpg
Hooker4701Sheet_top-section.jpg (31.85 KiB) Viewed 1625 times
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