Spencerforhire's NEW drag car project

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Re: Spencerforhire's NEW drag car project

Postby spencerforhire » Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:35 pm

IT'S ALIVE! All back together and it runs fine. A whole 10 days until the next race; whatever shall I do to keep myself busy? Maybe work on some of the thousand jobs I've been ignoring for the last couple of months while I thrashed on this car......
The "fleet"-
72 Vega HB Drag Car -383/'Glide/9"(9.35@146.19)(5.94@117.28 1/8th)
77 Vega Estate wagon- project(someday)will have TPI305/T-5, S-10 spindles/axles
76 Vega GT- 400/4spd/9" retired from active duty(rusty)
06 Silverado 2WD ex.cab daily
03 Silverado 2WD ex.cab (retired)
06 Haulin' 20ft enclosed car transporter
06 GMC Canyon Shop truck
07 Colorado project( 5.3 4L60e swap)
99 Saturn SL1- wife's car
01 Saturn SC2- son's project
07 Saturn Ion Redline project
and 4 more Saturn "parts cars"
Note- the very act of listing all of these has made me realize I have some kind of problem.....

Visit http://www.spencerforhire.ca
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Re: Spencerforhire's NEW drag car project

Postby spencerforhire » Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:52 pm

Vega motor- take 2; Tuesday night when I had it running I THOUGHT everything was OK. Wednesday morning I pulled the dipstick to see if I needed to top up the oil and I was greeted by what appeared to be a blueberry milkshake! 7 quarts of Royal Purple mixed with an unknown quantity of water. AAARRRGGGHHH!
Some investigation with a cooling system pressure tester and a set of leak down gauges turned up a problem in the center 2 cylinders on the right side(4 & 6). After teardown I discovered some interesting things;
1- the heads had previously been on a 400 and as a result had 6 steam holes drilled into them. Also 1 of the holes had experienced some significant heat and had "sagged" leaving a depression around it.
2- The heads had also been O-ringed in a previous lifetime, and a "clean-up" head plane job didn't remove all of the groove, especially around the 2 center chambers.
3- The Fel-Pro 1004(teflon coated reusable) head gaskets that were previously on the motor had done an admirable job of sealing up the mess from 1 and 2 above. I installed Fel-Pro 1003's(what AFR recommends for my heads); this turned out to be my undoing. They don't have a perfectly round opening around the chamber and didn't seal properly to the head in the area that was compromised by 1 and 2 above.

These 3 things all joined together and kicked me in the a$$.

The solution? Fill in the steam holes and remnants of the o-ring grooves with some J-B Weld "liquid aluminum", dig the old head gasket out of the garbage can(Wednesday was garbage day!) and re-assemble the motor with fingers crossed and bump the head nut torque from 75 up to 80 ft/lbs(ARP says it's OK). Everything is all good; no more water in the oil and no more bubbles in the rad. This winter I need to get the heads planed a whole bunch, but for now it'll do.
I am officially sick of wrenching on this thing; I'm taking the rest of the weekend off.
The "fleet"-
72 Vega HB Drag Car -383/'Glide/9"(9.35@146.19)(5.94@117.28 1/8th)
77 Vega Estate wagon- project(someday)will have TPI305/T-5, S-10 spindles/axles
76 Vega GT- 400/4spd/9" retired from active duty(rusty)
06 Silverado 2WD ex.cab daily
03 Silverado 2WD ex.cab (retired)
06 Haulin' 20ft enclosed car transporter
06 GMC Canyon Shop truck
07 Colorado project( 5.3 4L60e swap)
99 Saturn SL1- wife's car
01 Saturn SC2- son's project
07 Saturn Ion Redline project
and 4 more Saturn "parts cars"
Note- the very act of listing all of these has made me realize I have some kind of problem.....

Visit http://www.spencerforhire.ca
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1972 Chevrolet Vega Hatchback

Re: Spencerforhire's NEW drag car project

Postby gerbsinmd » Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:11 am

Dang man, talk about a bummer.....
1999 Saturn SL2
2017 Cruze Hatchback
2008 Town & Country - Family transport
2018 Cruze - 35mpg - avg, 49.7mpg - best so far.
2011 Impala - commuter
RIP-2002 Saturn SL2 Commuter car - burned a valve @ 234k miles

1977 Monza Mirage being Restified!!
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Re: Spencerforhire's NEW drag car project

Postby chevyart » Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:46 pm

when using the brodis aluminum heads on a 400 cu in block, they say you dont have to drill their heads for the 400 block steam holes we followed this advice on my buddies 406 cu in (562 horses) and it runs as cool as can be on the street and at the track. he has a real good radiator and electric fan. dont understand what the difference is between the stock chev steel heads for the 400 and the aluminum heads that dont require the steam holes drilled. any ideas. sorry to hear about the problems on engine. you seem to not let these things bother you too much and bounce right back. good luck art
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Re: Spencerforhire's NEW drag car project

Postby chevyart » Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:49 pm

spence PS whats the story on that JB weld? does it really hold up under high head. if so it sounds like a good cure all. does it only work on aluminum. art
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Re: Spencerforhire's NEW drag car project

Postby 72 SS PNL » Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:49 am

ouch that sucks !!! guess you did the finished dance before removing the gremlins :dance: :dance:

just make sure when the heads get milled to get the intake checked out and milled if needed , as well as port matched again
first and best car owned 72 GT(changed to SS) panel wagon

pictures of the car from 86 - http://www.myrideisme.com/Garage/06_IBM_GOAT/955
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Re: Spencerforhire's NEW drag car project

Postby chevyart » Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:31 am

eric it never ends when you start cutting. im pretty sure this happens when cutting the heads: heads move down closer to pistons whatever you mill off and the pushrods are maybe a little too long and it changes valve geometry. maybe then you need shorter pushrods, and valves get a little closer to pistons, taking from your valve to piston clearance.hot rodding is fun and can get real expensive.luckily for spence, he takes it in stride and is usually back in the racing business in a few days. go spence art
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Re: Spencerforhire's NEW drag car project

Postby spencerforhire » Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:38 am

Art- I though that I had read somewhere that the steam holes weren't really necessary on aluminum heads, but the AFR installation instructions do recommend them; If I ever go bigger with a 400 block I can always open them back up.
I took a chance on the JB Weld because the steam holes are only 1/8" plus I packed the stuff in there pretty good. The remnants of the o-ring groves were only about .010 deep and would be protected by the steel in the head gasket. The JB Weld dries harder than the surrounding aluminum and is supposed to be able to handle 450+ degrees. I wouldn't try to use it anywhere it would be exposed directly to the combustion heat. I figure this approach was worth a shot; there's no way I could have gotten the heads welded up and planed in time for the next races(back to back weekends).

72SS PNL- the heads had already been planed enough I had to elongate the bolt holes on my Super Victor; I know after the next cut I'm in for some extra machine work on the intake. My pushrods are the perfect length now so a .020 cut probably wouldn't make too much of an impact on valvetrain geometry. I intend to go with a big roller cam for next year anyway so new shorter pushrods would be part of that anyway.

Other than the time I wasted on diagnosing the problem and having to tear the head back off, all it really cost me was another set of intake gaskets. Maybe it's my Scottish heritage(I freely admit to being cheap) showing, but I'm formulating a plan to try and salvage the $100 worth of Royal Purple 20W-50 that's contaminated with water. I figure if I can heat it up to 220 degrees I can boil off the water without hurting the oil.
The "fleet"-
72 Vega HB Drag Car -383/'Glide/9"(9.35@146.19)(5.94@117.28 1/8th)
77 Vega Estate wagon- project(someday)will have TPI305/T-5, S-10 spindles/axles
76 Vega GT- 400/4spd/9" retired from active duty(rusty)
06 Silverado 2WD ex.cab daily
03 Silverado 2WD ex.cab (retired)
06 Haulin' 20ft enclosed car transporter
06 GMC Canyon Shop truck
07 Colorado project( 5.3 4L60e swap)
99 Saturn SL1- wife's car
01 Saturn SC2- son's project
07 Saturn Ion Redline project
and 4 more Saturn "parts cars"
Note- the very act of listing all of these has made me realize I have some kind of problem.....

Visit http://www.spencerforhire.ca
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Re: Spencerforhire's NEW drag car project

Postby 73astregt » Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:43 am

i get being frugal spence :wink: but for what the motor is worth if you spin a bearing and toss a rod or two thru the block id spend the 100.00 and get fresh oil sometimes trying to be frugal ends up costing ya big time! good luck in whatever you decide to do! :th:
73 astre gt 355 small block 435 hp 435 torque edelbrock performer rpm power package
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Re: Spencerforhire's NEW drag car project

Postby spencerforhire » Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:32 am

There's cheap (Castrol GTX) in there now; I just hate to throw away oil that's only got 20 minutes of idle time on it. I'm going to let it sit for a while to see what it does on it's own.
The "fleet"-
72 Vega HB Drag Car -383/'Glide/9"(9.35@146.19)(5.94@117.28 1/8th)
77 Vega Estate wagon- project(someday)will have TPI305/T-5, S-10 spindles/axles
76 Vega GT- 400/4spd/9" retired from active duty(rusty)
06 Silverado 2WD ex.cab daily
03 Silverado 2WD ex.cab (retired)
06 Haulin' 20ft enclosed car transporter
06 GMC Canyon Shop truck
07 Colorado project( 5.3 4L60e swap)
99 Saturn SL1- wife's car
01 Saturn SC2- son's project
07 Saturn Ion Redline project
and 4 more Saturn "parts cars"
Note- the very act of listing all of these has made me realize I have some kind of problem.....

Visit http://www.spencerforhire.ca
User avatar
spencerforhire
 
Posts: 2442
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:02 pm
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia

1972 Chevrolet Vega Hatchback

Re: Spencerforhire's NEW drag car project

Postby Kenova » Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:00 pm

spencerforhire wrote: Maybe it's my Scottish heritage(I freely admit to being cheap) showing, but I'm formulating a plan to try and salvage the $100 worth of Royal Purple 20W-50 that's contaminated with water. I figure if I can heat it up to 220 degrees I can boil off the water without hurting the oil.


You're not cheap, you are thrifty . :mrgreen: (My grandfather was Scottish.)

spencerforhire wrote: I just hate to throw away oil that's only got 20 minutes of idle time on it. I'm going to let it sit for a while to see what it does on it's own.


It will eventually separate. You could then set it in a freezer. The water will freeze but the oil will only thicken up a bit. Once the water is frozen you can pour the oil off.

Ken
My other car is a Nova.
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Re: Spencerforhire's NEW drag car project

Postby 72 SS PNL » Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:47 pm

im german , irish , american indian , and something else i forget , i cut costs when possible also
first and best car owned 72 GT(changed to SS) panel wagon

pictures of the car from 86 - http://www.myrideisme.com/Garage/06_IBM_GOAT/955
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Re: Spencerforhire's NEW drag car project

Postby spencerforhire » Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:11 pm

I think the oil & water might take a while to separate; it's been well mixed together by the oil pump. The actual term is emulsified. The freezer idea just might work if I let it sit for a couple of weeks first.
The "fleet"-
72 Vega HB Drag Car -383/'Glide/9"(9.35@146.19)(5.94@117.28 1/8th)
77 Vega Estate wagon- project(someday)will have TPI305/T-5, S-10 spindles/axles
76 Vega GT- 400/4spd/9" retired from active duty(rusty)
06 Silverado 2WD ex.cab daily
03 Silverado 2WD ex.cab (retired)
06 Haulin' 20ft enclosed car transporter
06 GMC Canyon Shop truck
07 Colorado project( 5.3 4L60e swap)
99 Saturn SL1- wife's car
01 Saturn SC2- son's project
07 Saturn Ion Redline project
and 4 more Saturn "parts cars"
Note- the very act of listing all of these has made me realize I have some kind of problem.....

Visit http://www.spencerforhire.ca
User avatar
spencerforhire
 
Posts: 2442
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:02 pm
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia

1972 Chevrolet Vega Hatchback

Re: Spencerforhire's NEW drag car project

Postby chevyart » Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:11 am

my buddy ran a top alcohol funny car and he would always cook his oil during the week and use the oil over. he didnt even have the real expensive oil, but i think his engine held around 14 qts of oil, so oil was a big expense as he had to change it every run. ill have to ask him exactly how he did it. never heard of the freezing it trick to separate the water from the oil. sound like a COOL idea. spence , im waiting for some more videos to watch. got a new batch of popcorn for your next video. good luck art
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Re: Spencerforhire's NEW drag car project

Postby spencerforhire » Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:51 pm

Getting packed up tonight for this weekend; time trials 5:00pm Friday, a "Big Buck Bracket Bash" on Saturday and regular Super Pro(10.99& quicker) racing on Sunday. I Installed a delay box(Dedenbear RTD-7) with a quick disconnect cable last night; if I can get it dialed in to my liking I just might enter both "Box" and "No-Box" divisions on Saturday.
The "fleet"-
72 Vega HB Drag Car -383/'Glide/9"(9.35@146.19)(5.94@117.28 1/8th)
77 Vega Estate wagon- project(someday)will have TPI305/T-5, S-10 spindles/axles
76 Vega GT- 400/4spd/9" retired from active duty(rusty)
06 Silverado 2WD ex.cab daily
03 Silverado 2WD ex.cab (retired)
06 Haulin' 20ft enclosed car transporter
06 GMC Canyon Shop truck
07 Colorado project( 5.3 4L60e swap)
99 Saturn SL1- wife's car
01 Saturn SC2- son's project
07 Saturn Ion Redline project
and 4 more Saturn "parts cars"
Note- the very act of listing all of these has made me realize I have some kind of problem.....

Visit http://www.spencerforhire.ca
User avatar
spencerforhire
 
Posts: 2442
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:02 pm
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia

1972 Chevrolet Vega Hatchback

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