Vegabee(framing)

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Vegabee(framing)

Postby Vegabee » Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:14 am

Lot of decisions on how to sturdy up the body chassis rear end pretty much all of it?Did not want to cut it up too much,the body is pretty nice.Do not want a roll bar so that means more beef underneath.I do know I want Chevelle lower control arms,22" length.Those would work with a triangulated 4 link,torque arm,or 3 link.Just no room for 4 link.Torque arm would be fine,but I decided on a 3 link similar to a Max-G looking deal.I also decided on a newer offset style of wheel which changes the rear and front track widths quite a bit.First off I did a lot of the usual stripping.Then using the old rear end still in the car I bolted up some wheels to determine the diff width.
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Tacked a pipe in to keep the width
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New style wheel on old rear before taking it out
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Had to add 3 good size nuts to get the space out there some
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Picked up some 2x4x3/16 tube from work
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Putting in a cross member behind the rear foot well.Running the tubing about 4 7/8 from the inside of the rocker panel and cutting reliefs for any thing that gets in the way like the low hanging floor areas.Then I angled the tubing toward the front of the car and was wondering if some how I could tie into the lower control arm area.
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The cross member went in easily behind the rear foot well after cutting off emerg cable brackets.From the cross member to the front I ran some string and and marked both sides of the tube width to the floor to see what had to go.
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Removed most of the sheet metal control arm brackets as well as the trans cross member mounts
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Cut right through the factory body mounting pads
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at that factory pad is where the tubing is angled toward the bottom of the lower front control arms.After a little thought on how exactly to do it,it hit me,just notch the bottom control arm brackets.
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Cross member in fits perfect wedged between the rocker panels
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Added parallel tubes
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Angled the tubes so they set in the lower control arm front brackets.I notched the front facing control arm bracket first then ran string back to the angle point of the tubing under the mid floor and notched and cleared everything out of the way until the string was clear with a good tight fit.Care here makes welding later much easier.
Now I figured on a combo drive shaft loop and third link attachment point to be sectioned into the rear cross member.My neighbor do iron work a and had some 3/8 x 3 1/2 rolled steel laying around,plenty strong.
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I tacked the tubing together and tacked a rolled loop to the bottom of the cross member.I cut slots in the floor tunnel and made templates for some plates to run down to the cross member so is to continue the complete loop and to make a pad for the third link tabs
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Pulled it out to complete the welding
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Welded the plate with 7018 and trimmed out the center of the drive shaft loop.
Last edited by Vegabee on Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vegabee(framing)

Postby Vegabee » Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:41 pm

Picked up a used housing on Ebay
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Trimmed off the old brackets and filled some of the pinion pump oiling holes.Also removed the inner oil seals then ordered tabs from a 4WD supply.
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Thats a 9" pinion centering jig from Dutchman.I located the pinion center on top of the housing then using my pipe spacer with a centering mark,lined them up.I cut one bracket shorter to conform to the shape of the top of the housing and make it level as poss.I will use my set up pipe through out the rest of the bracket set ups.
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The width of that set up pipe is a smidgen over 2.4".How do I know that?Have to decide on what control arms to use before hand.After looking at many control arms out there I decided on some Massive Race Spec.So I gave them a ring and they informed me that the width of there Chevelle lowers are 2.4" x 22" and the can make any length so I went with a 2.4" x 15.75 for my top link.
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I think I went 39" for a width between the out side lower brackets after first measuring width under the car.
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Then I started tacking brackets on and continued to level/measure.
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Re: Vegabee(framing)

Postby Vegabee » Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:30 pm

After welding it up,jacked the frame back up under(into) the car
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When tucked back in I welded all areas to the car and welded some more and more
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Welded complete around the front lower control arm notches
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The lower control arms would not quite fit in so when I had the frame out on the floor I notched out the areas and flipped the notches to the inside and welded them in.They fit well in there now,just have to make and put side filler pieces in
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Welding the top side
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Peekaboo through the floor
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Sucked it right up!
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Re: Vegabee(framing)

Postby chevy art » Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:10 pm

i see we have another very talented fabricator that belongs to our beloved forum. nice work there bee. are you making and drawings with specs for the frames you are building. keep up the good work art
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Re: Vegabee(framing)

Postby 73astregt » Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:01 am

looks like some good fab skills as art said but what are you using for a motor?reason i ask is with that front frame setup you are making if you are putting in a v8 i dont think you are going to have room for headers or a starter. i know my front frame is stock and i had several clearance issues in that area(mini starter,2129 hooker headers)it was a real tight fit and some trimming had to be done to get them in there.even the smaller headders(2135)one of the tubes go thru the body to lower control arm brace right where your frame is so im thinking you might have a problem there as well. drop your motor and starter and exhaust in there before you go too far and make shure what you want to run is going to fit! course if you are going 4 cylinder you might be ok,i didnt see anywhere if you said what engine you plan to use,im not trying to flame your work i just dont want to see you get too far in and have to say DOH! everything else looks great wish i had your skills, best of luck! p.s if you are thinking of using hooker headders you can see the installation papers on line and see the areas im talking about.
73 astre gt 355 small block 435 hp 435 torque edelbrock performer rpm power package
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Re: Vegabee(framing)

Postby Vegabee » Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:59 am

You mean you didn't see that new engine hiding back there in the plastic?Also have a new trans sitting in a box there.Just received bolts and starter in the mail and scored a new Flaming River Cobra rack and pinion from some one who could not make work on his car off E-Bay.When I get this stuff organized I promise I will go over it step by step!Not looking to race my Vega mind you,just a simple and factory fresh 60s-70s car you can jump in a bomb around in any time.The rear area behind the axle is just all wrong.Super huge spare tire well,small tank tucked to one side,that you can't get any more by the way,and only room for one skinny tail pipe on one side,that's just all wrong.Over half way through some new plans and parts for back there including a new and inexpensive tank set up,but for now I'm going to continue on with some more of this 3 link set up,then maybe we'll set this engine in together eh.
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Re: Vegabee(framing)

Postby 73astregt » Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:47 pm

i have dual exaust with the tail pipes kicking out to the sides behind the rear tires,gives you more room that way.
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Re: Vegabee(framing)

Postby 1100kaw » Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:28 pm

I have to say. I really really like the frame. The three link i guess is good, i assume you still run panard/locator bar with that? You going to coil overs too?. The front engine area scares me, V8 anything going to be tricky with those rails. I was thinking the front control arms werent going to fit, but u caught it .
I want to go similar route with mine, tieing into the front seems to be the tricky part. I want strength but not a bunch of roll bars. Hard to get to the front without screwing up engine/exhaust room.
I cant wait to see your set up.
Thanks for sharing, nice work
Darrell
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69 Skylark Wagon BBC
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Re: Vegabee(framing)

Postby Vegabee » Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:45 am

From the back
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I cut to length and tacked up some electrical conduit the sizes of the control arms for mock up.This is cheap at the local building supply and allows you to work on the car before expensive parts need to be purchased and keeps the new arms from getting scratched up or spattered.
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The forward mounting tabs are centered the same width as the rear housing but I were too low when tacked straight on so i trimmed a quite a bit off to get them up higher.Theres no way that solid welded tube is going to move any more
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Liking the height now but conduit come real close to the tube
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With this conduit you can move the housing assembly up and down-around to check for clearance and suspension operation
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As I suspected lost room for the control arm heim
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but the priority was to get that lower control arm UP to a more level plane and I am not taking no for an answer!
So back to Fleet Farm
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for some pipe to make a cup for that control arm clearance
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split in two
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Sharpie marked area to be trimmed out and removed some of the tube
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In there now and cup also
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Tacked in and kept trimming with a die grinder and steel cutting bur for a good radius fit all the way around the heim joint.Made side filler pieces.I left the pipe to wrap around the tabs lower for a little extra support then welded it all solid
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Filled the whole thing with weld and ground it flush with the lower rocker.At one some time earlier I cut the bottom of the rockers just above the spot welds and ground it straight all the way across the entire rocker to clean up the look some.Also trimmed the bottom of the quarters completely off,look nicer that way I think.
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I am going to have to now use an Allen head bolt for mounting this side,reg bolt head wont fit.Fastenal will get grade '8' cap bolts.
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Turning attention to the upper
Here we go!Sliced the floor.My thoughts are to get a third link in as low as possible,cover it,get access to it,and see if the rear seat still fits over it,if not to get by with a minimal amount of upholstery over the center area.
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Recall the Motto:Don't Take No For An Answer
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I filled in and welded some around the loop top.This is a 15.75 upper arm and my first try at tabs that came out too low so I cut some more
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All the way down
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Re: Vegabee(framing)

Postby Vegabee » Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:07 pm

Pulled the housing back out cut it to width and temporarily tacked some Mark Williams #57800 housing ends on to check the final width and figure out pan hard bar brackets.
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This is a bolt on brake bracket that is from Scare Bird brakes.
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They take Toyota Previa front rotors and '87-88' T-bird turbo coupe calipers.They fit nicely into 14" or 15" wheels.
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Mounted up some tires and put them up on blocks in the Vega wheel wells at the ride height.
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Leveled them out and got them where I wanted with some wood spacers.
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Then ran a tape through the housing measuring wheel face to wheel face.this is the flange to flange number plus rotor width.I needed to get those rear brakes hanging in there to know how close to come with my pan hard bar brackets.Started on one end by tacking some trailer hangers together.I thought about angling the large one on the inside so some time I can mount a shock bracket to it.
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I got a measurement across the rear of the housing and 4 5/8 from axle tube to center of a 1 1/4 pan hard bar should work.Have to come as close as possible for the new gas tank to clear.
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I mounted and leveled a scrap 3" axle pipe in the vice and trimmed the bottom of the bracket on an angle contour.worked with it until level and tacked it on.
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Tacked it on the housing and went ahead and mocked up a pan hard bar out of conduit.Came as close to the brake caliper as possible.Making the bar as long as possible and level with the housing.
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Now I needed a strong bracket to connect to the body on the other side,after some thought I elected to weld in a tube across the top of the rear floor and down the left side with a gusset.Pretty heavy gauge tube that I can mount shocks and gas tank straps to also.
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Making a strong gusset.
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Arc weld it together.
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Grind paint and undercoating off and weld in.
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Clamped another trailer bracket on the body side now
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Here is right and left sides.
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BUT STOP I forgot about pinion angle.The housing needs to be at the correct pinion angle before all these brackets go on!So after some research I now have just over 1 1/2 degree up on the pinion and 1 1/2 degree down on the engine center line,that will have have some drive shaft angle for u-joint lube.So i decided to make sure the car is level again,got 1 1/2 degrees up on the housing and leveled the housing again.Also measured from the top of the housing tubes to the top spring pads to make sure of the ride height.All this bracket work needs to be done at vehicle ride height.
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Nipped my tacks where I had to and got the brackets and bar level with the housing and out correct distances on both ends with the housing tilted up at 1 1/2 degrees.
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Looked at many rear spring set ups from coils to coil overs and decided to go with some Slam SS-6 air bags with KYB shocks.
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Got some plates and drilled them to match the mounting holes.The mfg. has charts to set the bag pressures and ride height.This should be easier to get a ride height with out throwing a bunch of different springs under it.
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Now for mounting and welding the pads in I had an idea of using some large PVC from the local building supply.This really worked out well in that it keeps the top and bottom mounting pads parallel,you don't have to worry about burning a hole in them from weld spatter,and also the pipe elbows I bought had clocking marks so it was a piece of cake to line up and clock the top and bottom plates so the bolt holes are in alignment when you are done
First find center of your plates
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Line up with clocking marks on PVC pipe.
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Bolt together with some long bolts
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Measure to the out side edges around them
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Square for good measure.
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Put where you need it.
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now for some lower brackets.
Grabbed another trailer hanger and spread it out with my scrap pipe so it will clear the mounting pad bolts.
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trim the bracket to fit axle tube.find your height and start subtracting or adding to the top or bottom as to meet with the top and bottom mounting pads
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got more PVC axle diameter and angle cut it for a template
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Not much radius in there,might be able to eyeball and cut it between the height lines.
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Hopefully the bolts will come out.
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On top the air chisel popped what was left off the body to make room for the bags.
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Threw the bags in temp to see iyou have room and clear out anything that is in the way.
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up on top I welded in angle top make a flat upper base around the upper spring perch
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level and space side to side an d tack in.
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Re: Vegabee(framing)

Postby 72 SS PNL » Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:05 pm

your panhard bar is wrong the ends need to be flipped 90 , similar to the below F-body bar , or your rear will have a major bind going up and down

otherwise nice work

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first and best car owned 72 GT(changed to SS) panel wagon

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Re: Vegabee(framing)

Postby Vegabee » Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:17 pm

What causes the bind Torque from the rear end?I think I see what you are saying.I am using the same ends as the control arms have from Massive but I will check their movement and switch if I have to,Thanks.
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Re: Vegabee(framing)

Postby Vegabee » Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:34 pm

Splurged a little
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Re: Vegabee(framing)

Postby 72 SS PNL » Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:04 am

Vegabee wrote:What causes the bind Torque from the rear end?I think I see what you are saying.I am using the same ends as the control arms have from Massive but I will check their movement and switch if I have to,Thanks.


the way you have it , the up-down movement will bind up most ends will not move that far , also they can pop the end off the ball

all the panahrd bars ive seen all have the ends the same as the pic i posted

if you look at the way you have the 2 lower and single upper , they are mounted inline with the movement , which is also stronger
first and best car owned 72 GT(changed to SS) panel wagon

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Re: Vegabee(framing)

Postby waybad » Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:25 am

man!!!! that's all I can say :th: :th: :th: :th: :th: :th: :th: :th: :th: :th: :th: :th: :th: :th: :th: :th: :th: :th: :th:
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