3800 Supercharged Astre

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3800 Supercharged Astre

Postby vegastre » Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:49 pm

PROJECT SC VEGASTRE

While I'm not sure what defines any car as a “project” ? Swapping a FWD Supercharged 3800 motor into the H-Body must qualify. I am about at mid journey and the following link is the Engine thread relating to this “project”.

Engine Forum: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=37673

At this point the swap is coming together as far as fabrication which I am trying my best to keep to a minimum. Although I will be posting very regularly and possibly irritating to some don't blink your eyes because I want this swap completed before the end of the year. I'm not so sure how realistic that is but you must keep to a schedule and I am mostly on track right now. That said, life does have a habit of getting in the way of projects but barring any meltdowns the project journal should progress in a even fashion with regular updates. Cost wise, I'm approx. $1600 vested at this point and I expect that to double at completion.

Picking up from the other thread the following Pics are of the 'Shortie' Headers I fabricated out of various 3800 tube exhausts. Not the easiest or the slickest deal as I am not a great welder and exhaust guy but they turned out to be a pretty neat fit considering what I had to work with. So it goes =)
Attachments
ex1.JPG
V6 "Shorties"
ex1.JPG (158.02 KiB) Viewed 2776 times
ex2.JPG
Driver Side
ex2.JPG (130.7 KiB) Viewed 2776 times
ex3.JPG
Passenger Side
ex3.JPG (136.93 KiB) Viewed 2776 times
Last edited by vegastre on Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:03 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: 3800 SC H-Body Swap

Postby 72 SS PNL » Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:35 pm

not to bad , 1 step at a time
first and best car owned 72 GT(changed to SS) panel wagon

pictures of the car from 86 - http://www.myrideisme.com/Garage/06_IBM_GOAT/955
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Re: 3800 SC H-Body Swap

Postby BillPappy » Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:50 am

Your doing one of the two things I wanted to do. :th: other was a Caddy northstar .. Looking great!!! I am loving it. Keep it up!!!

With my older age, came a shorter fuse. :cuss: (or) Maybe I am just burned out on fabbing up parts.
It's hard for an old street racer to stay on the safe side of stupid

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Re: 3800 SC H-Body Swap

Postby vegastre » Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:04 pm

(or) Maybe I am just burned out on fabbing up parts.


I can relate,
Over the years I have done or help back half a Vega, front half one, replace floor boards, sub frame connectors so I appreciate the time and hard work invested. That said, I also realize how extensive fabrication has a habit of sidetracking anyone's plans and schedule. Beentheredonethat and I'm not a great fabricator so above all at this time sticking to some sort of schedule with a sense of urgency is more important. Will shortcuts be taken? Yes, but any project is filled with trade offs if you plan on finishing and moving on. It's difficult because my buddy and I agreed to not cut up our last few H-Body's we own. Well, not anymore than they already are or required =)

Next weekend the Buick 231 will be coming out of the Astre if anyone in Texas needs a complete drivetrain from the radiator back to the TH350. $650 complete or $400 without the carb and intake.
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motor.JPG
Buick 231
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Re: 3800 SC H-Body Swap

Postby vickyvega73 » Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:10 pm

This is a cool idea. I'll be watching this build. I've always wanted to do a 2.0 turbo ecotec build myself. Keep pics coming :th:
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Re: 3800 SC H-Body Swap

Postby vegastre » Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:29 pm

Keep pics coming


As long as I (We) can keep dodging Tornadoes' =)

Got the clutch cylinder roughed in, very tight fit. Designed up the accelerator cable set up off the TB. Sorta cool that it will be completely hidden behind the firewall. Tonight I will be re-wrapping the steering wheel for the fourth time over a three year period. The other wraps were poorly executed jobs and as of now its a point to do it right.

I'll load pics when I have more time.
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Re: 3800 SC H-Body Swap

Postby johnk » Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:55 pm

I will love to see the finished pic of a 3800 SC in a H-body :th: I am a long way from getting my old 77 monza back in road shape but working on it :? I have a 98 Pontiac Grand Prix Pace car replica that I have a lot of fun driving around the country to car shows with a 3800 SC that came stock in it. I work a lot on the SC GP's so have plenty of old eng's and spare parts for that eng sitting in the garage. I see from the headers that you built that you are going to use only one bank for the oxygen sensor input. All of the factories use two sensors or put it where both sides feed into one exhaust pipe. I was wondering if there is any problem with doing this as checking out the new aftermarket bolt on EFI systems to replace a carb on V8's are doing the same thing. It seems to me that a stuck FI on the other bank could destroy a eng. or is the chance of that small? :th:
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Re: 3800 SC H-Body Swap

Postby vegastre » Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:20 pm

Right,
Both good points on the O2 sensor and I don't have an answer at this point. In my case of cobbling together the headers I had little choice but to leave the bung in that spot so I am going to try and use the one 02 but your point is well taken if any one has some input. I would think it would be small but the old adage if it can go wrong it eventually will.

Right again =) I drove an SC GTP for the first time ever a few weeks back and the performance boost was impressive. Let me mention this was a tuned GP but still I can already see that the Astre may need sub-frame connectors =) Glad you chimed in I may need a little advice and parts as this comes together.
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Re: 3800 SC H-Body Swap

Postby johnk » Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:09 pm

In the GP's that weigh over 3000 Lbs they get 25 to 30 MPG and with the stock auto trans produce 200 HP at the wheels. :lol: It does not take much to get 300HP out of them and some run up to 500HP in full race trim running below 8 sec in the 1/4 mile drags. So frame connectors will be on your list at some point :th: and if you want power a turbo is a easy swap. I don't know about other transmissions that bolt up to the 3800. But the 3800's were standard in the Pontiac Firebirds. Just post here any questions there is a lot of H-body info on this board. Just post and ask :lol: Please put as many pictures up as possible as they convey a lot of info that you forget to put in words. looking forward to your progress :th:
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Re: 3800 SC H-Body Swap

Postby vegastre » Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:48 pm

Please put as many pictures up as possible


SIDEBAR

Small deviation, I was exchanging PM with another member and I mentioned how I had recently redone the interior of the car and he wanted to see some pics so I thought I would just go ahead and post them here.

The interior has been a two tone cloth black and blue forever. I decided recently to recover the seats with a black leather hide and do a mono tone interior using the ABS panels. The hide is dyed with the 'Wet Look' or gloss sewn in a crushed or wrinkle style reminiscent of RR and Bently's of the 70's. While not everyone's cup of tea I think it's a nice contrast to factory plain Jane seats with particular attention to a black monotone interior.
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DSCN1564 - Copy.JPG
DSCN1564 - Copy.JPG (174.91 KiB) Viewed 2583 times
DSCN1554 - Copy.JPG
DSCN1554 - Copy.JPG (164.3 KiB) Viewed 2583 times
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Re: 3800 SC H-Body Swap

Postby vegastre » Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:59 pm

Engine Rebuild

Shit Happens, upon pulling the Buick 231 out of the SJ, I mashed my left index knuckle pretty badly. No emergency room visit but it put me down for awhile now. The engine compartment is clear and starting the detail process. I'm not going overboard but I will mud a little here and there and paint with a charcoal Grey base coat clear coat.

Shown here are a couple of pics of the 3800 block back from the machine shop and ready for assembly. Never built one of these motors so the process may be a little slow with the knuckle not fully healed. Pretty impressed so far with the block. Cross drilled mains and very solid webbing. All the appearance of a pretty tough package. More pics when I get a chance.
Attachments
sb1.JPG
Bare Block
sb1.JPG (130.66 KiB) Viewed 2453 times
sb2.JPG
3800 Block
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Re: 3800 SC H-Body Swap

Postby vegastre » Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:17 pm

ONE STEP AT A TIME...

Finished up the short block. Very tough little motor. This is a bonafide performance block and in stock form back in the day Pontiac would have referred to the 3800 as “Super Duty”. Its got all the parts you want for a neat street motor. As a side note I am spending the time to crawl up under the SJ and scrape, wash, brush away four decades of road grime mixed with oil and whathaveyou. Its a nasty job but someone's got to do it =) Any suggestions on a non caustic cleaner that will melt the stuff off easier? Simple Green and the usual stuff is not working on the caked on gunk.
Attachments
shortblock.JPG
shortblock.JPG (136.01 KiB) Viewed 2374 times
sjnomo.JPG
sjnomo.JPG (163.66 KiB) Viewed 2374 times
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Re: 3800 SC H-Body Swap

Postby Monza Harry » Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:38 pm

Phil here in Canada these guy's sell a degreaser called "Purple" it isn't unique to them but I can't remember the Brand name, this S :censored: t ate through the plastic jug, and cleans aluminum great (does actually etch it so be careful) it is pretty tough to beat! So see if there is one near you or if someone else knows the brand name and how/where to get it near you. Harry http://www.teamtruck.com/index.shtml
Last edited by Monza Harry on Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 3800 SC H-Body Swap

Postby vegastre » Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:46 am

Time To Mud

I don't know if anyone's noticed but H-Body engine compartments are not all that lovely. Bumps, holes, dimples, wavy seams and a fair amount of ripples. For years I have wanted to try and clean it up but I was always in a hurry to do this or that. So, this time I decided to go ahead and mud the engine compartment. Body putty is difficult enough when using a board file but I will be sanding all this by hand. I will paint the compartment a Charcoal Grey base coat, clear coat.

In the mean time I have spent two days crawling around on my back cleaning the underside. I left most of the undercoating intact because its there for a reason. This car was delivered from Lordstown directly to Dallas. The upside is this car virtually has no rust other than surface discoloration and of course battery tray area has been replaced. All the original underside body primer and body color is intact and decent shape. So it goes.

BTW, Harry...'Oven Off' did the job.
Attachments
mt1.JPG
mt1.JPG (157.55 KiB) Viewed 2331 times
mt2.JPG
mt2.JPG (173.8 KiB) Viewed 2331 times
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Re: 3800 SC H-Body Swap

Postby vegastre » Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:05 pm

August In Texas

About 50% of building a Hot Rod is boring laborious grunt work and August in Texas is not helping with the fun. That's right the grunt is doing the work under a shade tree. Sort of a future past for me as the temperature in the garage is about 110 degrees F. Shade tree somewhere in the mid 90's with a breeze. The real upside is with all the sanding being done outside seems like an excellent compromise, no mask needed and a clean garage.

As I mentioned an H-Body engine bay is not all that sweet and all I am trying to do is make it presentable and not embarrassing. I will say I am going the extra mile here as this is my second week of prep and still no paint, but close if I can find the time.

Texas heat sucks but oddly enough you get used to it.
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shadetree.jpg
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