3800 Supercharged Astre

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Re: 3800 Supercharged Astre

Postby vegastre » Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:51 am

August/September

UPDATE

Work is slow but steady and winter is setting in.

I did some research on fuel pumps to handle my 3800SC swap. Researching a high pressure pump for a in tank pump matched to our stock style pump. In other words just replace the pump. I came up with a pump out of a 95 S-10 blazer at around $40 bucks, $70 at AutoZone. AirTex # e3270.


Here is a little fuel pump tech…..

EP241 ( E3210 Airtex) = Flow= 40 gph & PSI = 65-75
Now that pressure reading is right on the head of the pump at the lab and if you take into account filters and lines and lengths, it’ll probably equate to 50-55 psi… should be.

I wasn’t to impressed with those # and did some checking. I went up in years and found the EP381 pump used in the early vortec trucks, cyclones, ect….and here are it’s #’s

EP381 (E3270 Airtex) = Flow = 50-60 GPH & PSI = 80-90
Here again that psi rating is under perfect conditions at the lab and on the head of the pump. It should yield you a 70-80psi in the vehicle.

I talked to Airtex and their guy Craig. He confirmed these numbers I have here and inquired what I was working on. I told him and he said.. quote “ you should never use a EP241 on a vortec or LS1 motor” Craig went on to explain that it would work but the pump would be working itself to death to maintain the pressure and that would shorten the lifespan dramatically. He also explained that the EP381’s were manufactured with a new thin magnet design which yielded a lot higher torque that the EP241’s. They were specifically designed to work on Vortec & LS1 style engines. Also he said the current draw on the EP380 would be significantly less than the EP241, less current = less heat=longer life. The EP241 is designed to work with TPI & MPI and should only be used in this application.

As of today the fuel system is finally installed including high pressure line, fresh restored cleaned gas tank, fuel filter and 3270 pump installed. No easy task, let me tell you. Not sure the car will be running anytime soon. Winter is almost on us, Looking at more like March 2015.
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Re: 3800 Supercharged Astre

Postby vegastre » Sat Nov 29, 2014 10:52 pm

October/November

UPDATE

One of the more interesting design placement was the radiator hose. Copied mostly from a 2000 3800 firebird hose. The 3800 flows from the driver side to the passenger side. Pics for your viewing pleasure =) Fab work can some time involve a whole lot of back and forth trips to parts suppliers and this was the case looking for just the right hose. This design incorporates a splice in the middle. The good part is the visual because the hose sits down low and is not obtrusive looking at all. In fact by the time both serpentine belts are on and other stuff to top it off the hose routing will be of little visual consequence which pleased me because I thought this was going to be some basterdized deal.

Today, Nov 29th, was very warm in Dallas so I spent most of the day taking care of what else? Details like more wiring and placement of the power steering lines with AN fittings which oddly enough I know little about so I ask the community. Link:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=42526

My AN experience down through the years has been through bling kits and such and nothing custom. Still it surprises me with all the hot rodding I have done. I'll post pics when completed. Anyway, it was beautiful day making me realize how much I enjoy building this car outside, well mostly outside =)
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Re: 3800 Supercharged Astre

Postby johnk » Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:41 pm

I hope not but in the picture it sure looks like the hose into the water pump is sucked in closed :lol: Please keep updating the build I keep looking at a few SC3800 eng's laying around the garage from pontiac GTP's and my monza but I think I'll stick with the old SBC. :th: Don't you love how the bolts in the eng are american and the accessory bolts are metric GM saving money reused the old casting from the Grand National 3800 just updated the heads up to make the new 3800.
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Re: 3800 Supercharged Astre

Postby vegastre » Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:01 pm

Don't you love how the bolts in the eng are american and the accessory bolts are metric GM saving money


Ya,
That is freaking weird, well, the whole motor is sort of off in left field from what I am use to. Naaa, plenty of clearance on the hose if an inch is as good as a mile =) It took a lot of measuring and trips to the auto store. They got tired of seeing me. As I mentioned fabricating is not always welding and cutting and pounding. Anyway, yesterday 81 degrees...today's high, 36. Texas weather for you.
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Re: 3800 Supercharged Astre

Postby Diesel Dan » Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:30 am

johnk wrote: GM saving money reused the old casting from the Grand National 3800 just updated the heads up to make the new 3800.

Not even close, about the only thing the GN 3.8 and the 3800 share is the displacement.
Externally stuff might bolt up but internally there are major differences, including the block.

vegastre, keep up the good work!
Would be nice if someday I run into the same problems you're having. :D
Last edited by Diesel Dan on Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 3800 Supercharged Astre

Postby vegastre » Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:17 pm

vegastre, keep up the good work!


Well,
I'm only a year past my original completion date. The caveat is I'm building the car outside shade tree mechanic style. A return to the 70's =) No excuses but if I was doing a garage build the car would be finished a long time ago and probably bored with it and changing stuff around. The upside is it has allowed me to go slow enough so I have plenty of time to think things through and correct other stupid stuff which seams never ending. I'm certainly not bored with it. The 231 displacement is about all it shares. The 3.8 Buicks have rode off into GM history.
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Re: 3800 Supercharged Astre

Postby vegastre » Sat Jan 24, 2015 2:37 am

December/January

UPDATE

My how time flies. At this point I'm getting pretty close to being finished after roughly 4,000 hours. A lot of which is re-doing a lot of shit I should have never done in the first place, but so it goes. I still have paint to go but luckily I like to sand. Something very pleasing about the body work process. I am Jonesing badly to drive this car. I predict within ten minutes after it's on the road I'll be doing donuts, boiling the tires and slamming the five speed. I don't have to tell you how fun these cars are to drive and after almost three years of sitting in the back yard. Few things I guarantee but this will be no garage potato. That said, I don't plan on driving the tires off of it but just enough to remind me of the excitement that only a H-Body car gives.

Mechanical cars of this era are disappearing faster than we might imagine and I think we take them for granted at times. Its Hard to imagine how well this car drives after all the modifications I have doe=ne on the suspension. The beauty of the 70's for me is I held on to a slice of it and this wagon is it. I have chosen well.

Look for a test drive and a comprehensive video mid March.
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Re: 3800 Supercharged Astre

Postby waybad » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:39 am

wooooohooooooo!!! looks killer,, nothing like the first drive after long hours in the garage!! well done!! :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:
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Re: 3800 Supercharged Astre

Postby vegastre » Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:15 pm

:lol:

Never had so many emoji ! This has been a difficult build. Looking back nothing really went that well. I have taken more side turns and backward tracking than I would like to admit to. Most of it is my fault for one reason. I really had no formula and nothing to go by and most of the time I was working from plans drawn in the dirt in the backyard. That said this is one of the most 'Artful' builds I have ever done. The original idea was to have a deceptively fast little supercharged wagon yet holding the horsepower to limits that the stock uni-body construction could handle. If this car gets the advertised 230 HP and 29 MPG I'll be driving this car everywhere.

I was out yesterday working on the car and after further review March may be a little overly optimistic but I will be pushing hard.
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Re: 3800 Supercharged Astre

Postby zeke » Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:51 pm

I bet it takes till March to get the grin off your face! Congrats man! :th:
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Re: 3800 Supercharged Astre

Postby vegastre » Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:15 pm

February/March

UPDATE

Not a whole lot done on the car in the last six weeks. Worked mostly on my garage replacing sheetrock that was sagging or falling down. Pretty much redid the whole garage with tape. mud, and texture. I did rebuild the metal box for the SJ throttle body for the third time. What I thought would be an easy fab turned into of course a overly time consuming project all unto itself (See Pic) Regardless I'm close to driving this car if I get uninterrupted build time.


Junk Yard Wagon
This little car was found sitting in a junk yard waiting to be parted out when my buddy and I saved it from the crusher. This would have been about 1984 or so. From there it was stored for ten years before we decided to put a v6 motor in it and drive it. We put the motor in it, drove it around the block and stored it for another five years until I decided to start driving it for daily transportation or better put a 'beater'. The car eventually again sat in my back yard with little or no attention until once again I decided to drive it for transportation and at that time rebuilt the v6 again. By 2005 the car was fully retired until This latest reincarnation. I can guarantee when it goes around the block this time I plan on driving it regularly, not for transportation but for fun.
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Re: 3800 Supercharged Astre

Postby 79440bird » Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:52 pm

Did you get your car running good. I'm in Michigan and talk to you once before by text message. I have a 79 sunbird with 3800 motor in it. Just wondering what you used for power steering hoses and how you went about your upper radiator hose. Can you post more pictures of the fully done engine bay? Your engine sits back about 8" more than mine as I didn't cut my firewall. Is it loud in the car when your driving from all the air sucking in the throttle body?
79 sunbird 440 chrysler motor indy cyl heads12bolt leaf springs 80 sunbird 3800supercharged everything from a 99 bonneville 75 cosworth 350 dual quads 84 efi vette intake mod for carbs 78 Buick skyhawk 350 buick motor A/C &TA performance intake
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Re: 3800 Supercharged Astre

Postby vegastre » Tue Aug 04, 2015 2:52 pm

Did you get your car running good


The short answer is no,
Now for the long answer. Life basically got in the way with a couple of health issues (I'm fine now) and in the mean time I got involved in remodel on my house. The good report is I'm back on the car project even In the Texas heat. I did try to fire it but evidently I will need the ECM tweaked. Ya, the radiator hose was just a lot of running to the parts store and bugging them. The design did require some splicing as I pointed out both top and bottom. The power steering hose was pretty straight forward using off the shelf AN fittings. Seen more convoluted stuff on new cars PS. I purposely have not went into detail here as this swap applies to so few. Boring stuff you know. Send me a PM and I'll get you more detailed info.

As far as the sound? Who knows? I'm not sure which will be louder the TB or the Supercharger but this is not a daily driver. I want the Astre to be in tune with the mechanical side. Seat of the pants feel and the open road. The straight line Quarter mile is very secondary to the design. I may not even put in frame connectors.

In close, every time I set a date to drive it something happens so I'm done with that but certainly when I do members here will be the first to know.

I have written a 84 page service manual on the 3800 H-Body Swap. The following is just one page as an example for any interested or curious.

Page 60

Throttle Bottle Servicing/Removal

Servicing is done from underneath dash and is best accomplished by removing Passenger seat for full access.

1) Remove air ducts. Ducts un-snap and are not held in place with bolts. Remove any insulation covering metal box.
2) Loosen throttle cable. It unsnaps from holder. Leave loose, do not remove.
3) Remove set screw in upper corner of metal box. Passenger side. (Phillips head)
4) Remove metal box. With a light tug box will release and remove.
5) You now have full access to TB. Remove three Allen head screws (3/16) and support with hand while you rotate the TB and un-hook three sensors.
6) Remove Throttle Body from engine.
7) Install: Reverse order LOL


:th:
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Re: 3800 Supercharged Astre

Postby 283vega » Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:06 pm

I HOPE THINGS ARE OK WITH YOU! Where does this cool project stand at this point? :?
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Re: 3800 Supercharged Astre

Postby 79440bird » Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:50 am

Nice job. keep everyone posted. Mine is on the back burner but hope to have a new garage up soon an be back working on it. Send me a pm if you need any help making a decision on sumtin
Doug
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79 sunbird 440 chrysler motor indy cyl heads12bolt leaf springs 80 sunbird 3800supercharged everything from a 99 bonneville 75 cosworth 350 dual quads 84 efi vette intake mod for carbs 78 Buick skyhawk 350 buick motor A/C &TA performance intake
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