Dwight's '72 Kammback GT - 215 c.i. V8

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Re: Dwight's '72 Kammback GT - 215 c.i. V8

Postby bugdewde » Sun Jan 17, 2016 1:33 pm

You're right, Rick.
Fun doesn't have to be fast.
The last time I autocrossed a Vega, simply getting the steering wheel turned multiple times for each turn was exhausting. Fun, but exhausting on the 30 second runs. A quicker steering box would be nice, too.

Here's a shot of it on Wracker's new lift ..... in his new shop. The arms are fully extended and barely fit the Vega :lol:
Lift.jpeg
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Dwight

'72 Vega GT Kammback, 215 V8
'73 Vega Wagon - Currently in Limbo....
My rides: http://www.cardomain.com/id/bugdewde
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Re: Dwight's '72 Kammback GT - 215 c.i. V8

Postby avewhtboy » Sun Jan 17, 2016 7:35 pm

bugdewde wrote:You're right, Rick.
Fun doesn't have to be fast.
The last time I autocrossed a Vega, simply getting the steering wheel turned multiple times for each turn was exhausting. Fun, but exhausting on the 30 second runs. A quicker steering box would be nice, too.

Here's a shot of it on Wracker's new lift ..... in his new shop. The arms are fully extended and barely fit the Vega :lol:


I am seriously trying to see if I can get power steering on the car before May. I have all the parts from the Astre that had power steering sitting in the floor of my garage. Problem is, with
the front motor mounts I don't think you can mount a pump any where. Which means I need different motor mounts.....

I am jealous of the new shop and lift rolling around on a creeper is getting old!


I guess you guys are getting the trans installed? Any other plans while it's there?
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Re: Dwight's '72 Kammback GT - 215 c.i. V8

Postby bugdewde » Sun Jan 17, 2016 10:10 pm

No other plans. Driver, not a project. :D

Just trying to get the torque arm length and the tailshaft height right.... by jacking around on the computer. With my rotating days/nights work schedule and his 4 on 4 off, we never get any shop time to work on projects. Since they moved recently, he's now about 30 minutes way, rather than the 60 minutes before they moved.
Supposed to be down to the single digits the next couple nights so I won't be working on it this week. And I work the next 4 nights. Maybe next weekend.

Since I'll be robbing parts off the blue car (crossmember and driveshaft) I guess I better get busy and start working on my stuff.
The turbo T/A needs some transmission love, too.

I do have a whistle coming from the carb since I switched the Holley 390 out for the Edelbrock 500 that was specifically detuned for the 215 V8. I've sprayed starting fluid all over that carb and I can't find the whistle anywhere. Might do some carb work, but I'm really just anxious to get it off the rack and rowing through the gears.
The cam has too much duration, and I'm wanting to swap out to whatever was in my other 215 V8. I'll tear it down soon and figure out what cam it had in it. Pulled great down low, unlike this 282 duration cam.
Honestly, doubt I'll get anything other than the trans swap before Cruisin' the Smokies in April. I'm no good........
Dwight

'72 Vega GT Kammback, 215 V8
'73 Vega Wagon - Currently in Limbo....
My rides: http://www.cardomain.com/id/bugdewde
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Re: Dwight's '72 Kammback GT - 215 c.i. V8

Postby bugdewde » Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:03 pm

Got to wrench on the cars a bit today.
Removed the clutch pedal assembly from the '73 white Kammback (what a pain in the rear!) to get ready for use in this car.
Removed the blue '73 hatchback's modified crossmember that fits a T-50 trans, as well as the driveshaft, to trial fit in this car.

Here's the odd part:
The crossmember, trans and driveshaft is from a 215-powered '72 I had years ago.
My simple mind says.... "Hey, everything will bolt right up." :th:
Nothing did..... :x

Crossmember interferes with trans.... just a touch:
Crossmember interferance MOUNT.jpeg



Trans Crossmember interference.jpeg


Temporarily overcame that by lowering the trans down enough to get the front of the crossmember tucked in, then jacked the trans/crossmember up into place. Of course, the BFH didn't bend it at all....... that's some serious fabbed up crossmember...... that will have to be addressed.



Once the crossmember was bolted in place to the body mounts, the trans mount didn't line up with the crossmember holes.

Crossmember Holes.jpeg

Crossmember Mount Holes.jpeg


Rotating the mount 180 didn't help either.





Then on the the driveshaft issues:................
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Last edited by bugdewde on Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:20 am, edited 3 times in total.
Dwight

'72 Vega GT Kammback, 215 V8
'73 Vega Wagon - Currently in Limbo....
My rides: http://www.cardomain.com/id/bugdewde
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Re: Dwight's '72 Kammback GT - 215 c.i. V8

Postby bugdewde » Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:17 pm

Driveshaft (yes, the same one from the 215-powered '72 I had years ago) was too long.
The slip yoke is fully bottomed out inside the trans, the u-joint wouldn't fit in the pinion yoke... by just just a smidge.
Driveshaft TOO LONG bottomed out in trans.jpeg


This crap came from a running, complete 215-powered '72 I had years ago..... ran great with no issues for years!!!! WTF?????
I guess the motor mounts on this engine are slightly different than the ones I had years ago. I guess I can compare them (yes, I have all the 215 stuff from the old '72).
The crossmember and driveshaft was also used (and will still be used on it) on my blue '73 Hatchback when I swapped a T50 into it...... for years, too. WTF?



So, I have another driveshaft marked "T50". So, I tried it, too.
Too short.......... or so it looks like it to me....... maybe an inch inside the trans and maybe an inch of splines outside the trans...... totaling about 2 inches of splines. But the suspension isn't loaded (on lift) so it might compress a bit. Anyway, it might allow me to at least get the car home. Buddy needs his lift back.
Driveshaft SHORT.jpeg

Yes, that yoke will need to be cleaned up before sliding up into the trans.

The torque arm will have to be shortened a couple inches, too. :cuss:
Here, I thought it might just fit with the crossmember in place.... but realized the bracket is upside down.... :bang: Torque arm needs to be up much higher on the trans tail shaft.
With Crossmember On.jpeg


All in all...... not a good work day.

Well, on the bright side, I did get the clutch, pressure plate, throwout bearing, clutch fork and bellhousing installed. Just gotta get the pedals installed and the clutch cable routed. Should be able to shop/yard roll it soon.
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Dwight

'72 Vega GT Kammback, 215 V8
'73 Vega Wagon - Currently in Limbo....
My rides: http://www.cardomain.com/id/bugdewde
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Re: Dwight's '72 Kammback GT - 215 c.i. V8

Postby bugdewde » Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:47 pm

Here's a shot of the modified early Vega crossmember to fit a T50 five speed. This was in the 215-powered '72 I had years ago. Worked perfectly... for years. And has worked perfectly in the blue '73 Hatchback for years, as well.

It's lying on bottom.... a stock early crossmember is lying on top of it to show how much further back it needs to be.
We cut the stock one a couple years ago to use on a T5 trans that was going in the white Kammback.

Both Crossmembers.jpeg




As for the poor fitment issues...........
Crossmember/trans: I'm assuming the motor mount might be a bit different between the 215 of the early 2000s and this 215's mounts. I'll try to check them against the old ones.???
And Driveshaft: Maybe the 7.5" sticks out further than the 6.5". Anyone know?
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Dwight

'72 Vega GT Kammback, 215 V8
'73 Vega Wagon - Currently in Limbo....
My rides: http://www.cardomain.com/id/bugdewde
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Re: Dwight's '72 Kammback GT - 215 c.i. V8

Postby bugdewde » Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:39 pm

Something amazing happened............
While tracing out the torque arm bracket onto cardboard, I decided to see if the other torque arm bracket could be used to weld to the existing bracket to make the bushing bolt hole slot move forward 2.5".
In doing so, it looked like the other bracket was bent the other way....... hmmmm...... looks like it might fit better.
Viola`..... it fit perfectly! I don't know how... but it did.
it fits bottom.jpeg

it fits back.jpeg


:crazy:

But I'll take it. :dance:


So...... moving forward.
To the driveshaft issue. I measured and measured but by myself it was difficult to get a good measure. So I put the short one in and measured how much was in the trans (yoke is approx. 3.75" and I had 2.25" showing out the back) .... so I had approx. 1.5" inside the trans.... with about another 1" or so of spline engagement hanging out the tailshaft.
1.5 in.jpeg


A far cry from the 2.75"-3" needed..... but it will get the car home..... so I buttoned everything up underneath.



Next was routing the clutch cable: Guess what?

ANOTHER PROBLEM!!! :bang:
Driver side downpipe is right in the way. I mean, exactly right in the way.
clutch cable interferance 1.jpeg


clutch cable interference.jpeg



But hopefully it will get me to the house/muffler shop..... I'll wrap it in some type of insulation of some sort and try to space it off the exhaust pipe with something...... maybe I can still operate the clutch..... Sheeze!!!!!!!
There is a "bridge" between two bellhousing bolts that has a "guide" that the cable goes into. Maybe I can make another "bridge" that spaces the cable out further??????


Went ahead and tightened up some loose oil pan bolts.... practically all of them were 1/4 to 1/2 turn loose.



Can't imagine the troubles I'll have when I get around to installing the clutch/brake pedal assmebly........ Removal from the white Kammback was a real :censored:
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Dwight

'72 Vega GT Kammback, 215 V8
'73 Vega Wagon - Currently in Limbo....
My rides: http://www.cardomain.com/id/bugdewde
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Re: Dwight's '72 Kammback GT - 215 c.i. V8

Postby bugdewde » Mon Feb 22, 2016 12:34 pm

Trans swap updates:
Successfully got the car driveable. It's home.
I re-used the shifter plate from the auto shifter to minimize any holes/fab work to the original trans tunnel.... it's been cut substantially to fit the 4-speed manual trans swap by original owner, then the auto swap later.
Shifter plate.jpeg


Still need crossmember fabbed up, as I'm "borrowing" one from the blue '73 Hatchack (converted to T-50 also).
Driveshaft needs lengthened an inch or so
Clutch cable interfers with exhaust downpipe


Pedal swap:
Did I mention, NOTHING with this swap went smoothly..... as expected?
Of course, the pedal swap shouldn't be any different.

Well, the Automatic brake pedal is straight.
brake pedal.jpeg

So when I added the clutch pedal to the existing bracketry...... the clutch and brake pedal pads slightly interfered with each other. My large feet contributed to several gear shifts ending up in unexpected braking events. Can't have that........

OK.... so I'll just swap the brake pedals out ( I have one from the stalled white '73 wagon project).
The Manual trans brake pedal is curved to provide clutch/brake clearance.
Brake clutch pedal.jpeg

Now, the brake pedal interferes with the throttle pedal occasionally.
Seems the widened/modified trans tunnel meant the throttle pedal was relocated further out.

Par for the course.......
If I can't move the throttle pedal away some, I'll try to bend the brake pedal more towards the clutch...... wonder how that'll turn out? LOL.

Oh.... I forgot to mention......
The T-50 is very noisy. It can't believe how noisy it is. So I drained the ATF as best as I could, and re-filled with straight 30 wt oil. It quietened it down quite a bit, but it's still noisy. Hopefully, an insulated shifter boot will quieten it down even further.
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Dwight

'72 Vega GT Kammback, 215 V8
'73 Vega Wagon - Currently in Limbo....
My rides: http://www.cardomain.com/id/bugdewde
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Re: Dwight's '72 Kammback GT - 215 c.i. V8

Postby avewhtboy » Mon Feb 22, 2016 3:35 pm

I had a similar problem with the pedals when I did this swap. It could be that there is a difference in pedals between late model
H-body's and earlier model?

I bent the gas pedal toward the center of the car to correct that as much as I could.

Glad to see you got it together hopefully can get the bugs worked out without too much hassle.
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Re: Dwight's '72 Kammback GT - 215 c.i. V8

Postby zeke » Mon Feb 22, 2016 11:25 pm

Your gas pedal is underneath the column almost! And your brake pedal seems to have more offset.
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Re: Dwight's '72 Kammback GT - 215 c.i. V8

Postby bugdewde » Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:51 pm

Brake clutch pedal LINED.jpg


Yes, the trans tunnel has been widened by the original builder and added a bolt-in plate (red line).... making the throttle pedal relocated to one of the steering column boot/bracket bolts (see circled bolt). Assuming he did this when he swapped out the factory 4-speed for the TH350C. Wasn't an issue with the singular, automatic (straight) brake pedal.
See the distance from the pedal arm to the column? Should be the same as yours, I used the factory brake/clutch arm from my '73 white wagon project.

Now that I've swapped the curved Manual brake pedal, it interferes with the obviously relocated throttle pedal.
Will have to try and move the throttle over a bit more (maybe) or heat the brake pedal arm and bend it towards the clutch some.

I was just pointing out that NOTHING has really gone as planned on this simple, bolt-in trans swap. :bang:
Seems the engine mounts are further back than the 215-powered car all this stuff came from. Now my driveshaft, torque arm and trans crossmember don't fit correctly.
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Dwight

'72 Vega GT Kammback, 215 V8
'73 Vega Wagon - Currently in Limbo....
My rides: http://www.cardomain.com/id/bugdewde
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Re: Dwight's '72 Kammback GT - 215 c.i. V8

Postby OldsStarfire » Wed Mar 02, 2016 1:27 pm

Sorry it's not going easy but this is typical of engine & tranny swaps. All I did was repalce a T-50 with a T-5 and had all kinds of issues realted to the crazy camaro T5 mounting angle. I'm enjoying the play by play though so keep it coning!
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Re: Dwight's '72 Kammback GT - 215 c.i. V8

Postby avewhtboy » Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:10 pm

I see your registered for the autocross so I am assuming this thing is on the road already....

Update?
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Re: Dwight's '72 Kammback GT - 215 c.i. V8

Postby Monza Harry » Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:55 pm

Hey Dwight can you move the brake and clutch towards the outside of the car a little [1/16 or 1/8" could help a lot] as well as your throttle pedal to the centre. I realize that may be a hard victory as well. Cable and master cylinder alignment will be tough but should be do-able. Maybe a little slotting is in order and then some sealing compound/washers or a cover plate. Harry
I'm not a hoarder I'm a preservationist 78 Monza Spyder (~Soon(ish +/- I guess) To Be 2+2 with Spoilers)
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Re: Dwight's '72 Kammback GT - 215 c.i. V8

Postby bugdewde » Wed Mar 23, 2016 9:28 pm

Update........
Currently, I haven't done anything to it. It is driveable, but I rarely do since there isn't any HVAC yet.
One day we're 75 degrees, the next we're in the 30s.
My work schedule has changed to a 12-hour swing shift rotation where I'm on days for a few days, off a couple, then on nights.... and back and forth. Really effin' me up. 12-hour days and 12-hour nights all in the same week! Totally FUBARed.

I think I can move the throttle over a tad, and the brake pedal will have to be tweeked outboard a bit. Hoping that will help.

Yes, I'm registered for the autocross. Got my shifts covered, so I should be attending all weekend.
Hope to have a work day or two next month on my 7 day off rotation. Will also install the 1.125" front anti-sway bar. :th:

Been somewhat distracted by another project, that I just bought a couple weeks ago.....
Coworker's 217k mile Miata. Runs great but looks like crap.
:oops: (embarassed) Honestly, if I'd driven one of these things 20 years ago, I'd own a garage full of them by now.... or be dead. AMAZING road handling ability.
I'm 50 and it's my first import (I don't count the '06 GTO (Australian) or the numerous air-cooled VWs, since the economy wasn't affected by my purchases since they were used several times over before they came into my possession). I am completely smitten with it. :crazy: Zoom-Zoom.
45.jpg
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Dwight

'72 Vega GT Kammback, 215 V8
'73 Vega Wagon - Currently in Limbo....
My rides: http://www.cardomain.com/id/bugdewde
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