72 Vega GT Project Loco Moco

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Re: 72 Vega GT Project Loco Moco

Postby 6D9 » Sat Dec 31, 2016 6:19 pm

1100kaw2 wrote:What A find. Cool little car. I would Gen III LS it. dont disturb the exterior. Nice little survivor sleeper. Have fun. You already paid for the clean body. You will be suprised
at how far ahead you already are.


Thanks Darrell! Your car is looking awesome. Not sure what im going to do yet the LS or 406 I already have at the house. Was looking at the Powerbyace kit. I dont have the place right now for crazy major fab work. Needs to be a pretty straight forward swap. If I went LS it will probably be a 5.3 L33.
72 Vega GT...406 sbc..TH700R4...3.42 gear...235/60/15 MT DR's....11.54 at 118.6..Dad's car
72 Vega GT...4cyl..4 speed..all stock
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Re: 72 Vega GT Project Loco Moco

Postby Boostedvega » Sun Jan 01, 2017 1:18 pm

6D9 wrote:
1100kaw2 wrote:What A find. Cool little car. I would Gen III LS it. dont disturb the exterior. Nice little survivor sleeper. Have fun. You already paid for the clean body. You will be suprised
at how far ahead you already are.


Thanks Darrell! Your car is looking awesome. Not sure what im going to do yet the LS or 406 I already have at the house. Was looking at the Powerbyace kit. I dont have the place right now for crazy major fab work. Needs to be a pretty straight forward swap. If I went LS it will probably be a 5.3 L33.


why the 5.3 l33 and not just go with the LS1 for more cubes?
around here they both are around the same price, l33 to me are just over priced lm7.
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Re: 72 Vega GT Project Loco Moco

Postby Monza Harry » Sun Jan 01, 2017 6:47 pm

Boostedvega at least the L33 is all aluminum, unlike the probably easier to find [and hopefully cheaper] LM7. To me I wouldn't even consider an "Iron Block" LS as it is considerable amount of work to make happen, and if it is just a normal truck engine, it is not making any real power as compared to 6D9's Over bored 400 SBC the room to expand is really good but you will quickly overwhelm the chassis with out some $$$ thrown at that, all that work and money with out the ease of the plug and play [almost anyway] SBC you/he would have to make a suitable front accessory drive no/very few off the shelf headers/exhaust, odd radiator [in's and out's are swapped from side to side or both on the same side I forget which] and all with out the ~150ish lbs. savings of the alloy block/composite intake of the L33/LS1/LS6 the latter I had taken a good hard look at and decided that, that wouldn't happen quickly and I was already well invested in Gen1 SBC stuff. Oh that didn't include the $5000+ price tag for the best available ebay motors at that time. That is just my view on this, your options may yield a different outlook at this time, they are in some cases becoming more readily available daily, [not so much with the highest performance LS6's as I still take a peek around at them]. Harry
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Re: 72 Vega GT Project Loco Moco

Postby Boostedvega » Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:49 pm

I was only asking about his l33 reasoning, since any work he needs to make the l33 fit would be the same for the entire LS lineup.
what i was saying is (atleast here in california-maybe your is the different by a lot?) LS1 is about the same price as the l33. L33 is actually more "rare" than ls1 simply because camaro/transam are always being parted out/crashed.

so if you have a choice why go with a 5.3 vs 5.7 or why not go straight into 6.0?
if the future plans is stroke pretty sure the 5.3 cant be stroke as far as the 6.0


I dont know how familiar you are with the LS engines but they are basically all the same(just different cubes). meaning parts are interchangeable. in fact some of the truck engine came factory equipped with 799/243 heads, ls6 came with 243 heads(same flow just lighter valves)

as far as power goes lq4 are 6.0 and came make pretty good power. untouched besides cams.
stock truck intake flows as well as ls6 intake.

or i guess if your all about aluminum theres the ls2

I dont know what his plans is but when considering "iron" vs Aluminum i usually figure out the cost of that weight penalty. Atleast for budget guys. its about $1000 difference between the ls1/l33 vs lm7 so if your willing to pay 1k for 100lbs weight reduction then cool but if not the iron block is more than capable.


on a side note power wise.
its hard to argue with a $500 lm7 straight from factory running 600whp untouched.
ive looked ive yet to find an engine thats more "bang for your buck"
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Re: 72 Vega GT Project Loco Moco

Postby Monza Harry » Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:30 am

BV, I haven't looked in a while and I started looking for the LS1 then figured out the difference to the power of the LS6 was mostly heads and cam [only a little cam difference IIRC], so I focused on the LS6. I hadn't found any aluminum 6.0L's at the time I was looking. All the LS1/6's were around $5G with a computer [less without when I was actively looking], for me the amount of work as you say is the same with iron or aluminum and the cost is what it is, these cars with an iron block have a HORRIBLE F/R weight bias to truly improve it you also need to move it back, but "to me" if you do the all alloy/composite with EFI and aluminum rad. etc. and deal with the 400HP of the LS6 out of the box you will only need the same "mod's" as a stout SBC that we all mostly do anyway. So if you are shooting for Turbos/blower/NOS and 600+HP you will have some spending to do. Again this is from my wish list I want a stock looking interior including the full [as it is] rear seat, this again is an advantage of less weight. I know the alloy block will not handle all of the power, the iron one will but our chassis' have some serious limitations with power, remember they were built for 4cyl. 100HP so pushing into the 500HP neighbourhood will add work and these cars are fun to drive with as little as 200HP so this is where my opinion comes from. I have little interest in "racing" I just want to drive for fun, and today, here, that means "Track Days" So for 6D9 starting this with "a budget" for a build up, I think he should stay with the 406 he has, as he has it and it is the easiest swap with as he says "a budget" as I too was already well invested in Gen I SBC so the LS6 I wanted just didn't make sense to me at that/this time [Oh I still want it, but I want to drive it too, so a smaller project has become the focus]. Pricing and availability changes day to day and area to area, I was looking eBay and my last search turned up ~10 all far away/expensive shipping while earlier searches turned up 50+ engines with a wide geographical distribution. This is just my take and it all comes down to how much he wants to/can spend and time line. 6D9 also said he is working outside if I read that right, He can always re-do it later if the right stuff and opportunity becomes available. It isn't as though I haven't changed my mind 20 or 30 times! :lol: Harry P.S. I have original NOS 5.7 emblems and that is something that matters to me, I am surmising he has "a line" on the L33 which for most people becomes the "Executive Decision Maker"
Harry Later wrote:Boosted Vega you quote 600RWHP from a stock LM7 the net lists them at 285 SAE, that must be some wicked truck motor: http://www.hcdmag.com/53l-vortec-engine/
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Re: 72 Vega GT Project Loco Moco

Postby 6D9 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:04 pm

As much as I love sbc's Im pretty sure im selling my stuff and going LS. Just don't want to deal with machine shops anymore. Im going to get the Powerbyace kit first and go from that point. From what I have found the L33's were WAY cheaper than LS1's and they have the 243/799 heads on them. It really comes down to the best deal I can find at the time.
72 Vega GT...406 sbc..TH700R4...3.42 gear...235/60/15 MT DR's....11.54 at 118.6..Dad's car
72 Vega GT...4cyl..4 speed..all stock
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Re: 72 Vega GT Project Loco Moco

Postby Boostedvega » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:45 pm

Monza Harry wrote:
Harry Later wrote:Boosted Vega you quote 600RWHP from a stock LM7 the net lists them at 285 SAE, that must be some wicked truck motor: http://www.hcdmag.com/53l-vortec-engine/


yea location definitely plays a big part for sure. Around here it seems that you can easily get a complete ls1 for 3k. if you wait around i found one before for 1600. or 1000 for a long block. The price for them has gotten a lot better.

there is actually a forged 383 stroker ls6 for sale right now for $4600 just to give you an idea
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/pts/5930849134.html

the 600whp i mention is the capability of the engine.
Before i moved onto a vega my previous car is a 98 ws6 with a turbo 5.3
it dynoed at 600whp, the engine is untouched besides valve springs and cams. head gasket, bolts etc is stock/how it came from the truck.
this is actually the reason why Im very much pro lm7.

and I cant comment on the F/R distribution as to me 100lbs isnt a bad weight penalty for the savings that I get. But I can certainly see why people would pay to not have the extra weight.
Last edited by Boostedvega on Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 72 Vega GT Project Loco Moco

Postby Boostedvega » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:47 pm

6D9 wrote:As much as I love sbc's Im pretty sure im selling my stuff and going LS. Just don't want to deal with machine shops anymore. Im going to get the Powerbyace kit first and go from that point. From what I have found the L33's were WAY cheaper than LS1's and they have the 243/799 heads on them. It really comes down to the best deal I can find at the time.


how much were you able to find the l33?
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Re: 72 Vega GT Project Loco Moco

Postby 6D9 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:15 pm

Boostedvega wrote:
6D9 wrote:As much as I love sbc's Im pretty sure im selling my stuff and going LS. Just don't want to deal with machine shops anymore. Im going to get the Powerbyace kit first and go from that point. From what I have found the L33's were WAY cheaper than LS1's and they have the 243/799 heads on them. It really comes down to the best deal I can find at the time.


how much were you able to find the l33?


I have not picked one up yet just looking around seems like the going rate about $1500
72 Vega GT...406 sbc..TH700R4...3.42 gear...235/60/15 MT DR's....11.54 at 118.6..Dad's car
72 Vega GT...4cyl..4 speed..all stock
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Re: 72 Vega GT Project Loco Moco

Postby 6D9 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:17 pm

With the Powerbyace kit and going carbed/TH350/TH400 style trans why would the swap be anymore difficult than the sbc??
72 Vega GT...406 sbc..TH700R4...3.42 gear...235/60/15 MT DR's....11.54 at 118.6..Dad's car
72 Vega GT...4cyl..4 speed..all stock
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Re: 72 Vega GT Project Loco Moco

Postby monzaaddict » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:48 pm

You likely will have hood clearance issues with air cleaner and a stock hood. I can't see any way of running ac and ps together (pick one or the other). Powerbyace ls headers have the #8 tube going over frame which may affect turning radius. Hooker or cpp cast manifolds look like another option. If you have a non ac car the heater box will have to be spaced back on the inside and the cover in engine compartment modified for head/coil clearance. You need an ignition controller instead of a distributor. The oil pan will hang a lower than a stock v8 pan. You will need an electric fan instead of a engine driven fan.
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Re: 72 Vega GT Project Loco Moco

Postby 6D9 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:02 pm

monzaaddict wrote:You likely will have hood clearance issues with air cleaner and a stock hood. I can't see any way of running ac and ps together (pick one or the other). Powerbyace ls headers have the #8 tube going over frame which may affect turning radius. Hooker or cpp cast manifolds look like another option. If you have a non ac car the heater box will have to be spaced back on the inside and the cover in engine compartment modified for head/coil clearance. You need an ignition controller instead of a distributor. The oil pan will hang a lower than a stock v8 pan. You will need an electric fan instead of a engine driven fan.


Im good with all of the above. I think with the Holley carbed intake and deep drop base I have at home can get the hood to clear. No plans for a/c or p/s. Car will be street/strip car so streerring radius no biggie. My car is a factory a/c car so thats good. I like the MSD ignition box vs box/dizzy of the sbc. The modded camaro oil pan hopefully not too bad. Planned electric fan with either swap LS or SBC.
72 Vega GT...406 sbc..TH700R4...3.42 gear...235/60/15 MT DR's....11.54 at 118.6..Dad's car
72 Vega GT...4cyl..4 speed..all stock
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Re: 72 Vega GT Project Loco Moco

Postby monzaaddict » Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:21 pm

The ac system will have to come out if factory - no way anything other then the stock 4cyl will fit. I think with the ace mounts the engine will be lower in engine bay then other swaps done on this forum and like you said with the right air cleaner it may fit - or it still may not.
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Re: 72 Vega GT Project Loco Moco

Postby 6D9 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:31 pm

monzaaddict wrote:The ac system will have to come out if factory - no way anything other then the stock 4cyl will fit. I think with the ace mounts the engine will be lower in engine bay then other swaps done on this forum and like you said with the right air cleaner it may fit - or it still may not.


Yeah im good with removing the A/C stuff. Im goodwith either sbc or ls but never done the LS so would be fun!
72 Vega GT...406 sbc..TH700R4...3.42 gear...235/60/15 MT DR's....11.54 at 118.6..Dad's car
72 Vega GT...4cyl..4 speed..all stock
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Re: 72 Vega GT Project Loco Moco

Postby waybad » Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:29 pm

do both!!! :th: :th:

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