From: farradio_REMOVE_665003_THIS_@yahoo.com
Does GM really still own these cars..what do they do with them?
Al
[This is message #5191 by user farradio on Yahoo! Club Cosworth Vegas: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/cosworthvegas ]
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Question
by h-bot » Fri Apr 13, 2001 3:53 pm
From: buddyleejjc2_REMOVE_283822_THIS_@yahoo.com
O.K., how many CV's DOES GM own? As far as I thought, they only kept #0001.
Later,
John J. Cowall
[This is message #5193 by user buddyleejjc2 on Yahoo! Club Cosworth Vegas: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/cosworthvegas ]
O.K., how many CV's DOES GM own? As far as I thought, they only kept #0001.
Later,
John J. Cowall
[This is message #5193 by user buddyleejjc2 on Yahoo! Club Cosworth Vegas: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/cosworthvegas ]
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Question
by h-bot » Fri Apr 13, 2001 4:40 pm
From: CSWRTH1_REMOVE_631555_THIS_@yahoo.com
I think what was meant was that at one time GM had all the Cosworths so they set a record for owning the most.
[This is message #5195 by user CSWRTH1 on Yahoo! Club Cosworth Vegas: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/cosworthvegas ]
I think what was meant was that at one time GM had all the Cosworths so they set a record for owning the most.
[This is message #5195 by user CSWRTH1 on Yahoo! Club Cosworth Vegas: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/cosworthvegas ]
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Question
by h-bot » Fri Apr 13, 2001 4:45 pm
From: buddyleejjc2_REMOVE_720009_THIS_@yahoo.com
Does GM still own any other CV's other than #0001, the Corvega, and the SuperSpyder?
Later,
John J. Cowall
[This is message #5196 by user buddyleejjc2 on Yahoo! Club Cosworth Vegas: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/cosworthvegas ]
Does GM still own any other CV's other than #0001, the Corvega, and the SuperSpyder?
Later,
John J. Cowall
[This is message #5196 by user buddyleejjc2 on Yahoo! Club Cosworth Vegas: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/cosworthvegas ]
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Question
by h-bot » Tue Apr 17, 2001 9:36 am
From: pd_wick_REMOVE_746112_THIS_@yahoo.com
John. To my knowledge, GM owns Cosworth Twin Cam
Vega Number 0001, the two GM Design Cosworth Twin Cam
powered vehicles, the Corvega, and the Monza Super Spyder
and the 1971 blue GT, all of which were shown at
Green Bay last year. There is also a unrestored XP-898
design study in storage but it needs paint and
powertrain rebuild and with no sponsor, it will be a while
before it will see the light of day. As for other "H"
bodies, back in 1982, at the Sloan Museum car show, I saw
a IMSA body panel equipped Buick Skyhawk which was
built by the Buick Motor Division engineers and a group
of Flint, MI scouting Explorers. I haven't heard of
the car in years, don't know if it still exists. The
Monza turbo Cosworth (Yellow?)car probably doesn't
exist as the engine has found it's way into the resale
market after being scrapped in the 1980's. The white
1975 IMSA Monza "1" car also seems to have been
scrapped. That's all I know. If you hear of any others, let
me know. Paul
[This is message #5226 by user pd_wick on Yahoo! Club Cosworth Vegas: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/cosworthvegas ]
John. To my knowledge, GM owns Cosworth Twin Cam
Vega Number 0001, the two GM Design Cosworth Twin Cam
powered vehicles, the Corvega, and the Monza Super Spyder
and the 1971 blue GT, all of which were shown at
Green Bay last year. There is also a unrestored XP-898
design study in storage but it needs paint and
powertrain rebuild and with no sponsor, it will be a while
before it will see the light of day. As for other "H"
bodies, back in 1982, at the Sloan Museum car show, I saw
a IMSA body panel equipped Buick Skyhawk which was
built by the Buick Motor Division engineers and a group
of Flint, MI scouting Explorers. I haven't heard of
the car in years, don't know if it still exists. The
Monza turbo Cosworth (Yellow?)car probably doesn't
exist as the engine has found it's way into the resale
market after being scrapped in the 1980's. The white
1975 IMSA Monza "1" car also seems to have been
scrapped. That's all I know. If you hear of any others, let
me know. Paul
[This is message #5226 by user pd_wick on Yahoo! Club Cosworth Vegas: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/cosworthvegas ]
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Question
by h-bot » Thu Dec 19, 2002 2:16 am
From: markrock_REMOVE_470905_THIS_@yahoo.com
> does anyone know how many cosworths are left?<
As Duke says, this is probably the most predictable question asked at
any gathering of Cosworths or other similarly rare cars. But I'm not
sure even a review of registrations in 50 states would provide an
accurate answer. Why? Because there are two kinds of records--title
records and license records. If a car is licensed we can be
reasonably certain that it is operable. But cars that have been
sitting for 5 or 10 years or more are unlikely to be licensed, but
will still be titled. Undoubtedly they don't run, but as we proved
with #0307 that had been sitting for about 10 years indoors, and as
others have similarly found, these cars can be made operable in a day
or two of thrashing. I would count such cars, even if still sitting,
as among those still "left".
But title records don't tell the tale. You can't just count them.
Tom and I just scrapped a Cosworth body after we dismantled it. The
scrap dealer didn't even ask for the title, even though we had it
with us. That car will still show up somewhere as being in
existence, but it isn't. We actually watched it being crushed. So
we know 100% that it is gone.
Also, though the numbers in the grand scheme will be small, a search
of 50-state registrations will not turn up the more than 4 that are
in Canada, the one in Australia, and the ones in Europe. But clearly
these too should be counted among those "left".
With all that said, The WebCrew has concluded that the Internet
provides a potentially valuable tool for attempting to answer this
question. The www.cosworthvega.com website contains a Registry page
where folks are encouraged to register their Cosworths, including any
numbered parts that they have. We urge you, and everyone else who
has not yet done so, to go to the Site and register their Cosworth
(s). If we can energize folks to do this, we will take a giant step
toward being able to answer this question.
Now, without trying to re-open a debate (or pour salt in a wound),
the answer to the question depends on one's definition of Cosworth
Vega. To Duke in this context it means operable. To another it
might mean an essentially original car with its Cosworth engine,
whether or not it is running, provided it is restorable to running
condition. To another, it might include the essentially complete
Seekonk MA car recently on eBay, or the essentially complete KY car
now there, neither of which will ever be restored or likely ever run
again. To another it will include every Cosworth that has been
transformed into a V-8 Vega. To yet another it might be the Cosworth
shell that is for sale in Michigan without any engine or
transmission. So, until one defines what is to be included in the
concept of being "left", the question cannot be meaningfully
answered.
So EVERYONE, let's work on this problem of how many are left. Please
take a moment and Register your car(s) at www.cosworthvega.com.
Mark/The WebCrew
[This is message #10073 by user markrock on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
> does anyone know how many cosworths are left?<
As Duke says, this is probably the most predictable question asked at
any gathering of Cosworths or other similarly rare cars. But I'm not
sure even a review of registrations in 50 states would provide an
accurate answer. Why? Because there are two kinds of records--title
records and license records. If a car is licensed we can be
reasonably certain that it is operable. But cars that have been
sitting for 5 or 10 years or more are unlikely to be licensed, but
will still be titled. Undoubtedly they don't run, but as we proved
with #0307 that had been sitting for about 10 years indoors, and as
others have similarly found, these cars can be made operable in a day
or two of thrashing. I would count such cars, even if still sitting,
as among those still "left".
But title records don't tell the tale. You can't just count them.
Tom and I just scrapped a Cosworth body after we dismantled it. The
scrap dealer didn't even ask for the title, even though we had it
with us. That car will still show up somewhere as being in
existence, but it isn't. We actually watched it being crushed. So
we know 100% that it is gone.
Also, though the numbers in the grand scheme will be small, a search
of 50-state registrations will not turn up the more than 4 that are
in Canada, the one in Australia, and the ones in Europe. But clearly
these too should be counted among those "left".
With all that said, The WebCrew has concluded that the Internet
provides a potentially valuable tool for attempting to answer this
question. The www.cosworthvega.com website contains a Registry page
where folks are encouraged to register their Cosworths, including any
numbered parts that they have. We urge you, and everyone else who
has not yet done so, to go to the Site and register their Cosworth
(s). If we can energize folks to do this, we will take a giant step
toward being able to answer this question.
Now, without trying to re-open a debate (or pour salt in a wound),
the answer to the question depends on one's definition of Cosworth
Vega. To Duke in this context it means operable. To another it
might mean an essentially original car with its Cosworth engine,
whether or not it is running, provided it is restorable to running
condition. To another, it might include the essentially complete
Seekonk MA car recently on eBay, or the essentially complete KY car
now there, neither of which will ever be restored or likely ever run
again. To another it will include every Cosworth that has been
transformed into a V-8 Vega. To yet another it might be the Cosworth
shell that is for sale in Michigan without any engine or
transmission. So, until one defines what is to be included in the
concept of being "left", the question cannot be meaningfully
answered.
So EVERYONE, let's work on this problem of how many are left. Please
take a moment and Register your car(s) at www.cosworthvega.com.
Mark/The WebCrew
[This is message #10073 by user markrock on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
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Question
by h-bot » Thu Dec 19, 2002 6:13 am
From: doctorduke_REMOVE_202879_THIS_@yahoo.com
> Just curious here Duke, in what year will it end up being worth
ten??
>
> Al
There are some "zero mile" and very low mileage CVs that have sold for
about this amount, so that's how I pegged the number of ten grand for
a frame up restored CV.
Duke
[This is message #10076 by user doctorduke on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
> Just curious here Duke, in what year will it end up being worth
ten??
>
> Al
There are some "zero mile" and very low mileage CVs that have sold for
about this amount, so that's how I pegged the number of ten grand for
a frame up restored CV.
Duke
[This is message #10076 by user doctorduke on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
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Question
by h-bot » Thu Dec 19, 2002 7:16 am
From: cabbott24_REMOVE_895639_THIS_@yahoo.com
does anyone know how many cosworths are left?
[This is message #10070 by user cabbott24 on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
does anyone know how many cosworths are left?
[This is message #10070 by user cabbott24 on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
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Question
by h-bot » Thu Dec 19, 2002 7:57 am
From: doctorduke_REMOVE_453878_THIS_@yahoo.com
Of the 3508 produced, 4762 are left. Oops, sorry, that's FI Sting
Rays.
I hate to sound like slick Willy, but it depends on what you mean by
the word "left". To me it means a car that is operable.
About five years ago I was able to ascertain from the CA Bureau of
Automotive Repair that 50 CVs had passed an emission test in CA within
the previous 30 months, and most areas of CA other than those that are
very sparsely populated require bienniel testing. CA has about 12
percent of the US vehicle population, so 50/12 = 400. I figured this
might be a bit optimistic since cars out west last longer, so I
estimated the number of running cars at somewhere between 300 and 400.
A lot of CVs were driven every day for ten or fifteen years and rusted
out beyond any reasonable hope of repair. If anyone else has a better
sample and statistical analysis than this, I haven't heard it.
Now a few might argue about all those cars that have been sitting
under a tree for the past 15 years just waiting for the right guy to
come along and restore them, but the fact of the matter is that even
if restoration parts were readily available, which they aren't, very
few cars will ever receive complete restorations. It would cost about
as much to restore a CV as a Corvette, assuming parts were available,
and few would sink twenty to fifty thousand into a car that would end
up being worth ten, so the number of CVs will probably continue to
slowly decline.
That's why it's important to take good care of the good examples that
are still left. The number of extant CVs will never exceed the number
produced, like L-88 Corvettes, unless prices somehow spike to $50K or
better, but I'm not holding my breath.
BTW, this question - how may left - comes up on just about every
vintage car forum. There's really no way to know unless you could
somehow access all 50 states registration records at about the same
time to get a snapshot. Barring this, a reasonable estimate can be
made if you can develop a statistically signficant sample. Anything
short of this is pure speculation.
Duke
[This is message #10071 by user doctorduke on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
Of the 3508 produced, 4762 are left. Oops, sorry, that's FI Sting
Rays.
I hate to sound like slick Willy, but it depends on what you mean by
the word "left". To me it means a car that is operable.
About five years ago I was able to ascertain from the CA Bureau of
Automotive Repair that 50 CVs had passed an emission test in CA within
the previous 30 months, and most areas of CA other than those that are
very sparsely populated require bienniel testing. CA has about 12
percent of the US vehicle population, so 50/12 = 400. I figured this
might be a bit optimistic since cars out west last longer, so I
estimated the number of running cars at somewhere between 300 and 400.
A lot of CVs were driven every day for ten or fifteen years and rusted
out beyond any reasonable hope of repair. If anyone else has a better
sample and statistical analysis than this, I haven't heard it.
Now a few might argue about all those cars that have been sitting
under a tree for the past 15 years just waiting for the right guy to
come along and restore them, but the fact of the matter is that even
if restoration parts were readily available, which they aren't, very
few cars will ever receive complete restorations. It would cost about
as much to restore a CV as a Corvette, assuming parts were available,
and few would sink twenty to fifty thousand into a car that would end
up being worth ten, so the number of CVs will probably continue to
slowly decline.
That's why it's important to take good care of the good examples that
are still left. The number of extant CVs will never exceed the number
produced, like L-88 Corvettes, unless prices somehow spike to $50K or
better, but I'm not holding my breath.
BTW, this question - how may left - comes up on just about every
vintage car forum. There's really no way to know unless you could
somehow access all 50 states registration records at about the same
time to get a snapshot. Barring this, a reasonable estimate can be
made if you can develop a statistically signficant sample. Anything
short of this is pure speculation.
Duke
[This is message #10071 by user doctorduke on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
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Question
by h-bot » Thu Dec 19, 2002 9:23 am
From: rondeau3_REMOVE_644096_THIS_@yahoo.com
--- In <a href="/group/cosworthvegas/post?protectID=219233066105193209050199029077192253163098100009128121188190230091025019053061151110147">cosworthvegas@yahoogroups.com</a>, doctorduke <<a href="/group/cosworthvegas/post?protectID=091233212180056219138097203245129208071">no_reply@y...</a>>
wrote:
> and few would sink twenty to fifty thousand into a car that would
end
> up being worth ten
Just curious here Duke, in what year will it end up being worth ten??
Al
[This is message #10072 by user rondeau3 on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
--- In <a href="/group/cosworthvegas/post?protectID=219233066105193209050199029077192253163098100009128121188190230091025019053061151110147">cosworthvegas@yahoogroups.com</a>, doctorduke <<a href="/group/cosworthvegas/post?protectID=091233212180056219138097203245129208071">no_reply@y...</a>>
wrote:
> and few would sink twenty to fifty thousand into a car that would
end
> up being worth ten
Just curious here Duke, in what year will it end up being worth ten??
Al
[This is message #10072 by user rondeau3 on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
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question
by h-bot » Sat Jan 11, 2003 6:36 am
From: cabbott24_REMOVE_699214_THIS_@yahoo.com
does anyone know how many cosworths are left????
[This is message #10187 by user cabbott24 on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
does anyone know how many cosworths are left????
[This is message #10187 by user cabbott24 on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
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question
by h-bot » Sat Jan 11, 2003 6:45 am
From: doctorduke_REMOVE_145872_THIS_@yahoo.com
> does anyone know how many cosworths are left????
In a word - no!
Duke
[This is message #10188 by user doctorduke on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
> does anyone know how many cosworths are left????
In a word - no!
Duke
[This is message #10188 by user doctorduke on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
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question
by h-bot » Sat Jan 11, 2003 7:46 am
From: rondeau3_REMOVE_115072_THIS_@yahoo.com
--- In <a href="/group/cosworthvegas/post?protectID=219233066105193209050199029077192253163098100009128121188190230091025019053061151110147">cosworthvegas@yahoogroups.com</a>, doctorduke <<a href="/group/cosworthvegas/post?protectID=091233212180056219138097203245129208071">no_reply@y...</a>>
wrote:
>
> > does anyone know how many cosworths are left????
>
> In a word - no!
In my word, too many to get the price up yet.
Al
[This is message #10189 by user rondeau3 on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
--- In <a href="/group/cosworthvegas/post?protectID=219233066105193209050199029077192253163098100009128121188190230091025019053061151110147">cosworthvegas@yahoogroups.com</a>, doctorduke <<a href="/group/cosworthvegas/post?protectID=091233212180056219138097203245129208071">no_reply@y...</a>>
wrote:
>
> > does anyone know how many cosworths are left????
>
> In a word - no!
In my word, too many to get the price up yet.
Al
[This is message #10189 by user rondeau3 on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
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question
by h-bot » Sat Jan 11, 2003 8:19 am
From: doctorduke_REMOVE_107506_THIS_@yahoo.com
Al - If you find a year round underground temperature and humidity
controlled garage and stash your CV (after draining the cooling and
fuel systems, of course) with the back full of spares and restoration
parts, it might bring enough to buy your great grandkids their first
bicycles in 50 years. ;)
Duke
[This is message #10190 by user doctorduke on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
Al - If you find a year round underground temperature and humidity
controlled garage and stash your CV (after draining the cooling and
fuel systems, of course) with the back full of spares and restoration
parts, it might bring enough to buy your great grandkids their first
bicycles in 50 years. ;)
Duke
[This is message #10190 by user doctorduke on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
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question
by h-bot » Sat Jan 11, 2003 10:48 am
From: rondeau3_REMOVE_980581_THIS_@yahoo.com
--- In <a href="/group/cosworthvegas/post?protectID=219233066105193209050199029077192253163098100009128121188190230091025019053061151110147">cosworthvegas@yahoogroups.com</a>, doctorduke <<a href="/group/cosworthvegas/post?protectID=091233212180056219138097203245129208071">no_reply@y...</a>>
wrote:
> Al - If you find a year round underground temperature and
humidity
> controlled garage
That's where it's sitting as we speak, heated floor too.
and stash your CV (after draining the cooling and
> fuel systems, of course) with the back full of spares and
restoration
> parts, it might bring enough to buy your great grandkids their
first
> bicycles in 50 years. ;)
I like that one :)
Al
[This is message #10192 by user rondeau3 on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
--- In <a href="/group/cosworthvegas/post?protectID=219233066105193209050199029077192253163098100009128121188190230091025019053061151110147">cosworthvegas@yahoogroups.com</a>, doctorduke <<a href="/group/cosworthvegas/post?protectID=091233212180056219138097203245129208071">no_reply@y...</a>>
wrote:
> Al - If you find a year round underground temperature and
humidity
> controlled garage
That's where it's sitting as we speak, heated floor too.
and stash your CV (after draining the cooling and
> fuel systems, of course) with the back full of spares and
restoration
> parts, it might bring enough to buy your great grandkids their
first
> bicycles in 50 years. ;)
I like that one :)
Al
[This is message #10192 by user rondeau3 on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
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