3412 FOUND - in "drag"

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From: eaglefish123_REMOVE_984574_THIS_@yahoo.com

Chris and gang,

An ad in the St. Petersburg Times newspaper selling a 1976 CV
appeared this weekend. I called the seller and here is the saga.

It is series number 3412.

The car is owned by a fellow named Jeff in Zephyrhills, FL, (yes that
is the correct spelling - one word)just outside Tampa. His telephone
number is 813-788-7365.

The car now has a 400 c.i. sbc in the engine bay attached to a 700R4
tranny and a set of 2.96 rear gears out of a camaro.

His excuse for the swap was that a previous owner(s) drove the car
without anti-freeze badly corroding the inside of the engine, the
rebuild would cost him well over $2,000, NOS parts are too expensive
and it is too difficult to find parts. It made more sense to him to
put the money in the swap rather than restore the car. When I asked
about the CV engine, header, wire harnes, brain box, etc., he replied
that all of that stuff was useless and worthless so he junked all of
it! It is gone! It is history! He said that he had the original
wheels "restored?" and they are on the car. The dash bezel is intact,
but is getting old and he removed the series plaque number, which he
still has. The car he says is a brownish gold? with a brown interior.
The stripes are faded badly and he started to paint the jamb areas a
metallic blue color.

So that is the current saga of #3412. Oh yeah, he wants $3,000 or obo
for the car and remaining parts. Ahem, any takers? Yeah, right!
Another one bites the dust.

Al, I'm proud of you. Glad you solved your problem and saved yours.

JD




[This is message #9592 by user eaglefish123 on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]

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From: cosworth0078_REMOVE_804090_THIS_@yahoo.com

#3412 sounds like the typical non-CVOA member Cosworth. (Don't tell
me that he is a member, for then I will really scream!). I have seen
a bunch of them and spoken to the owners who never saw any value in
Club membership, prefering to "go their own way". As Maloy told me
many years ago, the price of our Cosworths will slowly begin to
increase ONLY when all the junk ones are off the market. While I
initially lament the destruction of, yet again, a classic milestone
car, the "hot rodding" of #3412, makes all our well maintained cars
ever more valuable. What really bothers me is that this yo-yo (is
idiot too strong a word?) thinks that he has a Cosworth Vega for
sale. Someone please set him straight. I will not call him because I
could not say anything nice. ($2,000 was too much to spend on a Vega
to restore the engine, my ass!) Thanks for letting me vent. My head
is trying to explode.
-Clark



An ad in the St. Petersburg Times newspaper selling a 1976 CV
appeared this weekend. I called the seller and here is the saga.
It is series number 3412. The car is owned by a fellow named Jeff in
Zephyrhills, FL, just outside Tampa. His telephone number is
813-788-7365. The car now has a 400 c.i. sbc in the engine bay
attached to a 700R4 tranny and a set of 2.96 rear gears out of a
camaro.
JD




[This is message #9597 by user cosworth0078 on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]

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From: eaglefish123_REMOVE_711339_THIS_@yahoo.com

Sorry about the typo Chuck. The series number on the Zypherhills CV
is 3413.

JD



--- In <a href="/group/cosworthvegas/post?protectID=219233066105193209050199029077192253163098100046209130">cosworthvegas@y...</a>, "Chuck" <<a href="/group/cosworthvegas/post?protectID=219233066084056072169026112248100208071048">cosvega76@y...</a>> wrote:
> Gosh, you guys scared me! I had to look in the garage to be sure!
> Yes, #3412 is still in there, comeplete with twin cam engine, 5-
speed
> trans and Skytrends sunroof. I believe Mr. Jeff in Zephyrhills,
> Florida is mistaken on the dash number.
>
> Chuck
>
> -- In <a href="/group/cosworthvegas/post?protectID=219233066105193209050199029077192253163098100046209130">cosworthvegas@y...</a>, eaglefish123 <<a href="/group/cosworthvegas/post?protectID=091233212180056219138097203245129208071">no_reply@y...</a>> wrote:
> > Chris and gang,
> >
> > An ad in the St. Petersburg Times newspaper selling a 1976 CV
> > appeared this weekend. I called the seller and here is the saga.
> >
> > It is series number 3412.
> >
> > The car is owned by a fellow named Jeff in Zephyrhills, FL, (yes
that
> > is the correct spelling - one word)just outside Tampa. His
telephone
> > number is 813-788-7365.
> >




[This is message #9603 by user eaglefish123 on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]

[h-bot]

From: cosvega76_REMOVE_689519_THIS_@yahoo.com

Gosh, you guys scared me! I had to look in the garage to be sure!
Yes, #3412 is still in there, comeplete with twin cam engine, 5-speed
trans and Skytrends sunroof. I believe Mr. Jeff in Zephyrhills,
Florida is mistaken on the dash number.

Chuck

-- In <a href="/group/cosworthvegas/post?protectID=219233066105193209050199029077192253163098100046209130">cosworthvegas@y...</a>, eaglefish123 <<a href="/group/cosworthvegas/post?protectID=091233212180056219138097203245129208071">no_reply@y...</a>> wrote:
> Chris and gang,
>
> An ad in the St. Petersburg Times newspaper selling a 1976 CV
> appeared this weekend. I called the seller and here is the saga.
>
> It is series number 3412.
>
> The car is owned by a fellow named Jeff in Zephyrhills, FL, (yes that
> is the correct spelling - one word)just outside Tampa. His telephone
> number is 813-788-7365.
>





[This is message #9599 by user cosvega76 on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]

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From: markrock_REMOVE_244229_THIS_@yahoo.com

When is a Cosworth not a Cosworth?

Clark, in his diatribe in message 9597, which I'll get to in a
minute, raises an interesting and perhaps even an important
question. When is a Cosworth no longer a Cosworth? Clark, who
wonders whether he is a "purist", wants to paint his spare
set of
Cosworth wheels with metalflake. The object of his diatribe, the
owner of #3413, yanked his broken Cosworth engine and installed a
small block Chevy and an automatic transmission. Some have taken
perfectly good Cosworths and made them into racecars. Some have put
spoilers on the deck lid. Others have put air dams on the front.
Others have painted their Cosworths non-Cosworth colors. Some have
installed Hurst shifters, others have made a perfectly good Cosworth
engine into a 2.3L motor with a stock Vega crank and special
pistons. Are each of these still Cosworths?

Clark opines that the owner of #3413 doesn't own a Cosworth. Is
he
right?

Where does one draw the line?

Can a line be drawn?

Should a line be drawn?

Or is the answer, if it has a Cosworth VIN, then it is a Cosworth, no
matter what has been done to the car?

Now to Clark's diatribe, involving a sentiment that I have
occasionally heard expressed by others on this Board. To these folks
the mere idea, the mere thought, of installing a V-8 into a Cosworth
body is anathema. They denigrate such folks, and imply at the least
that they don't belong in the CVOA, that they are yo-yo's or
even
idiots.

Sounds like elitism to me. Sounds like discrimination to me. Sounds
like intolerance to me. Isn't this the land of the free?
Don't the
concepts of property and ownership entitle folks who own Cosworths to
do whatever strikes their fancy? Remember, de gustibus non
disputandum est (search on one or more of those terms to find
previous discussions of the meaning). Some like coffee, some like
tea. Some like beer, some like wine. Some like chocolate ice cream,
some like vanilla. Some like pure stock Cosworths, some like to
personalize them in a hundred, a thousand different ways. Some like
to drive them on sunny days only. Others like them as daily
drivers. Isn't that their right? Should they be criticized for
it?
Should they be shunned for it? Shouldn't they be considered
Cosworth
bretheren and welcomed with open arms?

I have to tell you that a little over a week ago Barb and I were in
another state. I called a fellow Cosworth owner and CVOA member
"out
of the blue". I didn't know him, he didn't know me. We
happened to
be in his town so I said, "What the heck!" We met. He drove
his
Cosworth. He turned out to be one of the friendliest, one of the
neatest, one of the most generous Cosworth owners I know. We had a
wonderful time, an awesome time. A simply great guy. And do you
know what? He has a V-8 with an automatic transmission in his
Cosworth! He is proud of it. He is working to improve it. And he
still considers it a Cosworth, and he is still a member of the CVOA.

Do you know what else? He was apprehensive that I might think ill of
him for doing the V-8 conversion. He said that when the fact became
known, he had gotten some nasty e-mails. I could only shake my
head. I thought it was great. He was doing something he wanted. He
was enjoying his Cosworth in his own way. He was proud of his car.
And I was happy for him.

I think now I'll follow Paul Wicker's lead, and step down off
my
soapbox. Next?

Mark





[This is message #9621 by user markrock on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]

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From: kconnair_REMOVE_829015_THIS_@yahoo.com

Mark...

No soapbox speech that, it was most definitely from a rostrum ;)

And yes, everyone has his or her own taste. I personally can
appreciate both concours and modified Cosworths. I think that a V8
can have its place too.
Generally though what makes the Cosworth truly unique is the engine -
it is after all the car's "soul". I can appreciate V8 Vega's, but
my feeling (not a logical thing is it?) is that once the Cosworth
looses its COE designed cylinder head, it may still be a cosworth
Vega, but it is no longer a Cosworth Vega. It (whether a '75
or '76) will still have some of the Cosworth unique modifications.

Some misc. thoughts on the matter: Does the VIN alone make the car
a Cosworth Vega? What is it that makes a Yenko Vega a bona fide
Yenko? Is a ZR1 Corvette still a ZR1 Corvette with a pinto engine?
Is a ZL-1 Corvette still a ZL-1 Corvette with a 427 Ford engine? Is
a GTO still a GTO if it has an AMC 6 in it?


Another thought:
If someone put a COE V8 in the car would it be more of a Cosworth
Vega than if someone swapped in a small block Chevy?

I would never get angry and send nasty emails to someone who decides
to modify their own vehicle. Nor would I berate someone (either in
person or not) for doing what they want to their cosworth - it is
their property. I might be a little sad about the loss of the cars
unique identity, and would not recommend a swap, but I still would
appreciate a nicely done V8 conversion.

The fact of the matter is that these cars have found their way into
the hands of a wide variety of owners, and each person appreciates
(or not) them for a similar wide variety of reasons - some agree,
some do not.

My own opinion - from the description - is that 3413 is no longer a
Cosworth Vega, but is a V8 Vega with a cosworth vega VIN - because
of the overall reduction of the Cosworth unique attributes.

Just some more food for thought - for some more "taste".

Thanks for the thought provoking post Mark.

Kevin.






[This is message #9623 by user kconnair on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]

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From: doctorduke_REMOVE_660147_THIS_@yahoo.com

If someone pulled the LT5 engine our of a ZR-1 Corvette and installed
a 502 BB or - whatever - is it still a ZR-1?

Duke

P.S. The answer is the same re: installing a non-Cosworth Vega engine
in a Cosworth Vega.






[This is message #9624 by user doctorduke on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]

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From: eaglefish123_REMOVE_689602_THIS_@yahoo.com

The main purpose of my message was that of updating the club about
the present state and whereabouts of #3413. Sorry to stir things up
again. But, since has begun.......

When is a Cosworth Vega no longer a Cosworth Vega. Simple. When it
loses it's Cosworth heritage, that being the cylinder head. GM
engineers didn't decide to create a Vega with special stipping,
wheels and suspension and call it a Cosworth Vega - and THEN, as an
after thought, decide to include a special engine package. The engine
package came first, then everything else. Specifically, the Cosworth
Vega is the specially designed cylinder head by Cosworth of England.
Even the stripe package got the name Cosworth because COE builds
special cylinder heads and engines. Not because they design and build
stripe kits, wheel kits, etc. Without the Cosworth connection or
heritage, the car is nothing more than a shell of its former self or
a V8 Vega or whatever. A Corvette ZR1 without the ZR1 engine is just
a Corvette. A Cosworth Vega without the engine is just a - Vega.

Next, Jeff told me that he had absolutely no use for the CV engine.
Not even to save it for parts. He made only token efforts at trying
to find parts. He did not even think about the rarity of the engine
and its parts and the value to other CV owners. He made NO effort to
save much of anything. People buy these cars and then they cannot
comprehend them. So, when they have problems the don.t want to
educate themselves so they a knee-jerk reaction and swap in a V8. I
said it before and I'll say it again, it doesn't take much in the way
of brains to put a V8 in a VEGA and even less to put it in a CV.

As far as rights are concerned, owners can do what they want with
their property. But, everything has a cost or price or consequenses
or accountabilities. We (I, Clark, etc.) are entitled to our free
speech, too. We enjoy the freedoms that we have because our
forefathers new where to draw a line and they knew how to call things
as they saw it. The Clinton era of governing and "freedom" brought
us "political correctness". Now the pendulum of correctness needs to
swing back the other way. This country has become way too liberal and
has deteriorated in its values. This has contributed to what is
happening now. In the new Testament, Paul tells us that "everything
is permissable, but not everthing is beneficial." Of course, I guess
there is something beneficial in V8ing a CV - LIKE GOBS OF HP AND
TORQUE!!! Long live the V8! Long live the Cosworth!

So, that's my podium speech. Still like ya all.

JD

--- In <a href="/group/cosworthvegas/post?protectID=219233066105193209050199029077192253163098100046209130">cosworthvegas@y...</a>, doctorduke <<a href="/group/cosworthvegas/post?protectID=091233212180056219138097203245129208071">no_reply@y...</a>> wrote:
> If someone pulled the LT5 engine our of a ZR-1 Corvette and
installed
> a 502 BB or - whatever - is it still a ZR-1?
>
> Duke
>
> P.S. The answer is the same re: installing a non-Cosworth Vega
engine
> in a Cosworth Vega.




[This is message #9628 by user eaglefish123 on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]

[h-bot]

From: rondeau3_REMOVE_994644_THIS_@yahoo.com

>A Corvette ZR1 without the ZR1 engine is just
> a Corvette.

Only after you remove the doors, rear quarter panels, rear wheels,
back bumper and facia, transmission, clutch, bell housing, ECM
(computer), exhaust, radio surround face plate, some of the
suspension, motor mount, drive shaft and badges, then you're right,
it's just a Corvette.

The CV is a Chevrolet, the engine was designed in England, but did
Chevrolet built the engine? I can't remember now.

The LT5 was also designed in England, by Lotus, but was never built
by Chevrolet, Mercury Marine built them.

A major factor in killing of the ZR1 was the view that Corvette
insiders had of the ZR1. Here it was the fastest, most powerful
Corvette ever built, and it didn't even have a Chevrolet engine!

If you want more, go to:

<a href="http://www.zr1.net/gifs/PIC_6518.jpg">http://www.zr1.net/gifs/PIC_6518.jpg</a>

My $0.02 worth.

Al




[This is message #9629 by user rondeau3 on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]