From: longg01_REMOVE_104845_THIS_@yahoo.com
Hello everyone. I was doing some spring measuremeants, and found
the stock 75 rear springs to be 150 lb/inch. Is that right? What
are the front spring rates? I don't have any of my CV resources
with me here at school. Thanks.
~CHRIS
#0754
[This is message #9676 by user longg01 on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
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Spring Rates
by h-bot » Mon Oct 28, 2002 3:36 am
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Spring Rates
by h-bot » Mon Oct 28, 2002 6:14 am
From: doctorduke_REMOVE_699258_THIS_@yahoo.com
Front spring rate is 350 lb/in.; rear is 155 lb/in, which yield front
/rear ride frequencies of 1.2/1.7 Hz - very high for a production car.
Contemporaneous Vega spring rates are 325/130. GT/F-41 used the same
springs, but added the front and rear anti-roll bars and specific
shocks.
There is a thorough discussion of the CV's unique suspension tuning in
the TCT Portfolio.
Duke
[This is message #9677 by user doctorduke on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
Front spring rate is 350 lb/in.; rear is 155 lb/in, which yield front
/rear ride frequencies of 1.2/1.7 Hz - very high for a production car.
Contemporaneous Vega spring rates are 325/130. GT/F-41 used the same
springs, but added the front and rear anti-roll bars and specific
shocks.
There is a thorough discussion of the CV's unique suspension tuning in
the TCT Portfolio.
Duke
[This is message #9677 by user doctorduke on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
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Spring Rates
by h-bot » Mon Oct 28, 2002 7:08 am
From: longg01_REMOVE_731956_THIS_@yahoo.com
Thanks for the numbers, I don't have any of my CV papers/resources
at school with me.
Do you know the free lenths of the springs? This one may be far
out, but does anyone know the apx. weight on each corner or weight
F/R? Thanks for the help.
~CHRIS
[This is message #9678 by user longg01 on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
Thanks for the numbers, I don't have any of my CV papers/resources
at school with me.
Do you know the free lenths of the springs? This one may be far
out, but does anyone know the apx. weight on each corner or weight
F/R? Thanks for the help.
~CHRIS
[This is message #9678 by user longg01 on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
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Spring Rates
by h-bot » Tue Oct 29, 2002 8:08 am
From: hammerdown_REMOVE_827770_THIS_@yahoo.com
Mark, Are your numbers correct? Or maybe I'm interpreting them
wrong. F/R @ 16/84, awful large passengers in the back seat!!
Dick
--- In <a href="/group/cosworthvegas/post?protectID=219233066105193209050199029077192253163098100046209130">cosworthvegas@y...</a>, "Mark A. Rock" <<a href="/group/cosworthvegas/post?protectID=029166091163127190025067203043129208071">markrock@c...</a>> wrote:
> Chris:
>
> According to the 1976 Vega MVMA Specifications Form Passenger Car,
> the Curb vehicle weights (Reference SAE J1100 Passenger Car
Dimension
> Definitions, Pg. 1, Base Curb Weight)for a 2-door hatchback coupe
> 1HV77 are:
>
> Front - 1370;
>
> Rear - 1244
>
> Total - 2614
>
> The shipping weight, defined as "Weight of basic vehicle with
regular
> equipment, including grease, oil and (3) gallons of gasoline and
> engine coolant to capacity", is 2534.
>
> The percentage weight distribution F/R with "Pass in front" is
> 44.6/55.4
>
> The percentage weight distribution F/R with "Pass in rear" is
> 16.0/84.0
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Mark
[This is message #9685 by user hammerdown on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
Mark, Are your numbers correct? Or maybe I'm interpreting them
wrong. F/R @ 16/84, awful large passengers in the back seat!!
Dick
--- In <a href="/group/cosworthvegas/post?protectID=219233066105193209050199029077192253163098100046209130">cosworthvegas@y...</a>, "Mark A. Rock" <<a href="/group/cosworthvegas/post?protectID=029166091163127190025067203043129208071">markrock@c...</a>> wrote:
> Chris:
>
> According to the 1976 Vega MVMA Specifications Form Passenger Car,
> the Curb vehicle weights (Reference SAE J1100 Passenger Car
Dimension
> Definitions, Pg. 1, Base Curb Weight)for a 2-door hatchback coupe
> 1HV77 are:
>
> Front - 1370;
>
> Rear - 1244
>
> Total - 2614
>
> The shipping weight, defined as "Weight of basic vehicle with
regular
> equipment, including grease, oil and (3) gallons of gasoline and
> engine coolant to capacity", is 2534.
>
> The percentage weight distribution F/R with "Pass in front" is
> 44.6/55.4
>
> The percentage weight distribution F/R with "Pass in rear" is
> 16.0/84.0
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Mark
[This is message #9685 by user hammerdown on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
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Spring Rates
by h-bot » Tue Oct 29, 2002 9:04 am
From: markrock_REMOVE_194722_THIS_@yahoo.com
Dick:
I copied them correctly. Whether they are correct or not I will
leave up to Chris to determine mathematically.
HOWEVER, now that I look at the heading more carefully (% PASS.
WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION), and considering that only 16% of the VEHICLE
weight on the front wheels would make for some awfully light steering
<grin>, I suspect what the numbers mean is the percentage of the
passenger's weight that gets distributed. Thus, only 16% of the
weight of the rear passenger(s) is borne by the front suspension.
The vehicle's curb weight F/R distribution in percentage calculates
to be 52.4/47.6. Add a 200 lb. driver and the numbers appear to be
only 51.8/48.2.
Mark
[This is message #9686 by user markrock on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
Dick:
I copied them correctly. Whether they are correct or not I will
leave up to Chris to determine mathematically.
HOWEVER, now that I look at the heading more carefully (% PASS.
WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION), and considering that only 16% of the VEHICLE
weight on the front wheels would make for some awfully light steering
<grin>, I suspect what the numbers mean is the percentage of the
passenger's weight that gets distributed. Thus, only 16% of the
weight of the rear passenger(s) is borne by the front suspension.
The vehicle's curb weight F/R distribution in percentage calculates
to be 52.4/47.6. Add a 200 lb. driver and the numbers appear to be
only 51.8/48.2.
Mark
[This is message #9686 by user markrock on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
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Spring Rates
by h-bot » Tue Oct 29, 2002 10:56 am
From: longg01_REMOVE_333154_THIS_@yahoo.com
Mark, the weight distribution will really help me to find out what
kind of rear springs I need. The springs that I bought last summer
from were a front set only. So I figured out the spring rate, 440
lb/in, and that's a 25.7% increase from stock. I'm going up the
same % in the rear, which turns out to be 194 lb/in. I also want to
keep the rake the same. With your weight distribution that you gave
me, I think I can calculate how much weight is on each spring and
how much it compresses. With all these numbers, I believe I can
order a rear spring at the correct length and rate.
So if anyone has the free length of the front stock spring, I'd
greatly appreciate it. Thanks again.
~CHRIS
[This is message #9688 by user longg01 on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
Mark, the weight distribution will really help me to find out what
kind of rear springs I need. The springs that I bought last summer
from were a front set only. So I figured out the spring rate, 440
lb/in, and that's a 25.7% increase from stock. I'm going up the
same % in the rear, which turns out to be 194 lb/in. I also want to
keep the rake the same. With your weight distribution that you gave
me, I think I can calculate how much weight is on each spring and
how much it compresses. With all these numbers, I believe I can
order a rear spring at the correct length and rate.
So if anyone has the free length of the front stock spring, I'd
greatly appreciate it. Thanks again.
~CHRIS
[This is message #9688 by user longg01 on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
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Spring Rates
by h-bot » Tue Oct 29, 2002 1:35 pm
From: markrock_REMOVE_923860_THIS_@yahoo.com
Chris:
According to the 1976 Vega MVMA Specifications Form Passenger Car,
the Curb vehicle weights (Reference SAE J1100 Passenger Car Dimension
Definitions, Pg. 1, Base Curb Weight)for a 2-door hatchback coupe
1HV77 are:
Front - 1370;
Rear - 1244
Total - 2614
The shipping weight, defined as "Weight of basic vehicle with regular
equipment, including grease, oil and (3) gallons of gasoline and
engine coolant to capacity", is 2534.
The percentage weight distribution F/R with "Pass in front" is
44.6/55.4
The percentage weight distribution F/R with "Pass in rear" is
16.0/84.0
Hope this helps.
Mark
[This is message #9681 by user markrock on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
Chris:
According to the 1976 Vega MVMA Specifications Form Passenger Car,
the Curb vehicle weights (Reference SAE J1100 Passenger Car Dimension
Definitions, Pg. 1, Base Curb Weight)for a 2-door hatchback coupe
1HV77 are:
Front - 1370;
Rear - 1244
Total - 2614
The shipping weight, defined as "Weight of basic vehicle with regular
equipment, including grease, oil and (3) gallons of gasoline and
engine coolant to capacity", is 2534.
The percentage weight distribution F/R with "Pass in front" is
44.6/55.4
The percentage weight distribution F/R with "Pass in rear" is
16.0/84.0
Hope this helps.
Mark
[This is message #9681 by user markrock on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
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Spring Rates
by h-bot » Wed Oct 30, 2002 6:01 am
From: jbtoyniche_REMOVE_469688_THIS_@yahoo.com
I dug up the results of a weigh-in of
my car at the race track.<br>Here are the corner
scale weight numbers for my 1976 CV. Car has a radio, 5
speed, cloth seats and that's all. The car was weighed
at Mid-Ohio where the scales are calibrated
daily.
Car with approx. 10 gal of gas.
Left Right
Front 725 709 1434 54%
Right 567 645 1212 46%
Total 1292 1354 2646
I added 216# of dead weight behind wheel
Left Right
Front 809 732 1541 54%
rear 677 644 1321 46%
total 1486 1376 2862
Kind of interesting how the weight is distributed. I
also weighed my Mustang in the same manner and the
results were very similar. Frame design has a little bit
more to it than first meets the eye.
Jim
[This is message #9703 by user jbtoyniche on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
I dug up the results of a weigh-in of
my car at the race track.<br>Here are the corner
scale weight numbers for my 1976 CV. Car has a radio, 5
speed, cloth seats and that's all. The car was weighed
at Mid-Ohio where the scales are calibrated
daily.
Car with approx. 10 gal of gas.
Left Right
Front 725 709 1434 54%
Right 567 645 1212 46%
Total 1292 1354 2646
I added 216# of dead weight behind wheel
Left Right
Front 809 732 1541 54%
rear 677 644 1321 46%
total 1486 1376 2862
Kind of interesting how the weight is distributed. I
also weighed my Mustang in the same manner and the
results were very similar. Frame design has a little bit
more to it than first meets the eye.
Jim
[This is message #9703 by user jbtoyniche on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
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Spring Rates
by h-bot » Mon Nov 04, 2002 6:14 am
From: markrock_REMOVE_827892_THIS_@yahoo.com
Chris
According to my measurement, the free length of a Cosworth front
spring (don't know if a 75 or 76, but odds are it is a 75) is 13.25
inches. This was measured by laying the spring down on the floor and
pushing the "bottom" against a wall, keeping the spring
perpindicular, placing a board (kept parallel to the wall) against
the "top" of the spring, and measuring the distance between the wall
and the board.
Mark
[This is message #9724 by user markrock on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
Chris
According to my measurement, the free length of a Cosworth front
spring (don't know if a 75 or 76, but odds are it is a 75) is 13.25
inches. This was measured by laying the spring down on the floor and
pushing the "bottom" against a wall, keeping the spring
perpindicular, placing a board (kept parallel to the wall) against
the "top" of the spring, and measuring the distance between the wall
and the board.
Mark
[This is message #9724 by user markrock on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
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Spring Rates
by h-bot » Mon Nov 04, 2002 6:31 am
From: markrock_REMOVE_258425_THIS_@yahoo.com
Further as to springs:
I removed the rear springs from a 1976 Cosworth that I am dismantling
this weekend. One had a part number tape on it. It read OR 346964.
When I went to check my box of "spare" springs I found a rear spring
with an OT 394465 tape. I do not have any record of the car this
spring came from, though it is possibly a 76 as I did cut up one 76
many years ago.
Further the two letters, OR and OT, were about 3/4 inch high, while
the numbers were below and much smaller. I suspect the letters were
used for easy identification of the proper spring on the assembly
line, as the build sheet for another 76 car shows in Box #16 the
letters "OR" for both LH and RH springs.
Does anybody know how to correlate these letters or numbers into
spring rates?
Mark
[This is message #9725 by user markrock on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
Further as to springs:
I removed the rear springs from a 1976 Cosworth that I am dismantling
this weekend. One had a part number tape on it. It read OR 346964.
When I went to check my box of "spare" springs I found a rear spring
with an OT 394465 tape. I do not have any record of the car this
spring came from, though it is possibly a 76 as I did cut up one 76
many years ago.
Further the two letters, OR and OT, were about 3/4 inch high, while
the numbers were below and much smaller. I suspect the letters were
used for easy identification of the proper spring on the assembly
line, as the build sheet for another 76 car shows in Box #16 the
letters "OR" for both LH and RH springs.
Does anybody know how to correlate these letters or numbers into
spring rates?
Mark
[This is message #9725 by user markrock on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
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Spring Rates
by h-bot » Mon Nov 04, 2002 6:34 am
From: markrock_REMOVE_651279_THIS_@yahoo.com
Correction:
The spring numbers were:
OR 346964
OT 346965
Sorry for the confusion. Just one unit/number apart.
Mark
[This is message #9726 by user markrock on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
Correction:
The spring numbers were:
OR 346964
OT 346965
Sorry for the confusion. Just one unit/number apart.
Mark
[This is message #9726 by user markrock on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
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Spring Rates
by h-bot » Tue Nov 05, 2002 4:42 am
From: doctorduke_REMOVE_859335_THIS_@yahoo.com
They are the same rate - just different OA length to get consistent
ride height based on model and option content.
More info is in your TCT Portfolio, and the AMA specs that were
included in your GM Restoration Package.
Duke
[This is message #9733 by user doctorduke on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
They are the same rate - just different OA length to get consistent
ride height based on model and option content.
More info is in your TCT Portfolio, and the AMA specs that were
included in your GM Restoration Package.
Duke
[This is message #9733 by user doctorduke on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
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Spring Rates
by h-bot » Tue Nov 05, 2002 5:53 am
From: longg01_REMOVE_704526_THIS_@yahoo.com
Mark, I'm sorry, I did mean FRONT spring. Sorry, my typo. I got
all the measuremeant I need.
What parts are you taking apart? Any 1976 posi 4.11 rear ends?
Thank you.
~CHRIS
[This is message #9740 by user longg01 on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
Mark, I'm sorry, I did mean FRONT spring. Sorry, my typo. I got
all the measuremeant I need.
What parts are you taking apart? Any 1976 posi 4.11 rear ends?
Thank you.
~CHRIS
[This is message #9740 by user longg01 on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
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Spring Rates
by h-bot » Tue Nov 05, 2002 6:16 am
From: longg01_REMOVE_835016_THIS_@yahoo.com
Mark, I've measured my stock 1976 rear springs to be 13.25 inches,
which is the same length that you had. Therefore I'm guessing the
ones you measured are 1976 springs. So in reference to Duke's
input, the 1975 spring should one inch shorter, 12.25 inches long.
Does this sound correct? I appreciate the help.
~CHRIS
[This is message #9735 by user longg01 on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
Mark, I've measured my stock 1976 rear springs to be 13.25 inches,
which is the same length that you had. Therefore I'm guessing the
ones you measured are 1976 springs. So in reference to Duke's
input, the 1975 spring should one inch shorter, 12.25 inches long.
Does this sound correct? I appreciate the help.
~CHRIS
[This is message #9735 by user longg01 on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
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Spring Rates
by h-bot » Tue Nov 05, 2002 12:42 pm
From: markrock_REMOVE_507284_THIS_@yahoo.com
Chris:
The length I gave you was for a FRONT spring, not a REAR.
As I recall, the last message you sent inquiring asked for the length
of the front springs.
If you want me to measure a rear spring I can do so. Actually, Tom
and I just put the rear springs back under the 76 that I am in the
process of dismantling (does anybody need any parts?), but since it
is still up on jackstands, I can pull one back out easily enough to
measure it.
Let me know. The spring will be the OR spring.
Mark
[This is message #9736 by user markrock on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
Chris:
The length I gave you was for a FRONT spring, not a REAR.
As I recall, the last message you sent inquiring asked for the length
of the front springs.
If you want me to measure a rear spring I can do so. Actually, Tom
and I just put the rear springs back under the 76 that I am in the
process of dismantling (does anybody need any parts?), but since it
is still up on jackstands, I can pull one back out easily enough to
measure it.
Let me know. The spring will be the OR spring.
Mark
[This is message #9736 by user markrock on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
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