NADA CV Pricing

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From: wheatchex1_REMOVE_893860_THIS_@yahoo.com

Hi Al,
In my humble opinion, which isn't worth much, we have several things
working against us. The biggest one being the Vega stigma that the
cars were unreliable and rusted away on the showroom floor. Another
is that the cosworth to most people is just a black vega with
stripes. Another is the fact that most people figure that a V8 swap
is the best use of a vega body. The CVOA does promote the Cosworth
as being unique and of historical significance. But it is up to the
members to get out and promote the car and it's uniqueness at local
car shows and maintain their car(s) so that the number of cars that
are scrapped or destroyed is minimized. However on the flip side the
fewer cars that are left the more valuable the remaining become. If
you hang on to it long enough Al your car will someday become
valuable to someone.

Some one had said previously that the 63 split window corvette is the
most desireable of all corvettes. Why is that? Mid seventies
corvettes are not as desireable the rest. Why, it's still a
corvette? There must be something that causes it to be less
desirable. What makes a corvette desireable? It's history and image
is is what comes to my mind. Vega's have a history and an image as
well. Unfortunately it's image is tarnished by it's mechanical
problems and the time in history when it was released to the public
for sale. We have to promote the car and eventually the value will
rise for clean unmolested Cosworths.

Brian




[This is message #10428 by user wheatchex1 on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]

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From: rondeau3_REMOVE_262050_THIS_@yahoo.com

--- In <a href="/group/cosworthvegas/post?protectID=219233066105193209050199029077192253163098100009128121188190230091025019053061151110147">cosworthvegas@yahoogroups.com</a>, wheatchex1 <<a href="/group/cosworthvegas/post?protectID=091233212180056219138097203245129208071">no_reply@y...</a>>
wrote:
> Hi Al,
> In my humble opinion, which isn't worth much, we have several
things
> working against us. The biggest one being the Vega stigma that the
> cars were unreliable and rusted away on the showroom floor.

And how can you explain $12k for a Pacer? was the pacer a better
vehicle than a Vega? See that's what doesn't fit for me here, I'm
comparing it to the worst junk I can remember when I look for car
value, go check the list I had, they were all rusting of the showroom
floor, some had better engine like the inline 6's but they were as
boring as it can be.

Cosworth should mean something to the car buff's and they are the
one's known to pay too much for a car.

My question can anything be done to increase the value in the NADA
book at least at the same level as all the others?

5% in todays economy might be a little steep, but 10% when the Tech
stocks were as high as they were would have give us $7k today for a
$4k CV as it is now.

I'm not trying to get rich, just trying to make sense out of what I
see out there, go to Hemming.com and see for yourself, look in the
Old Car Trader and if you're anything like me, you'll wonder.

I know most of these cars will never sell, but the asking price is
there and there is no reason why we should be asking less for a low
miles unrestored CV than a rust repaired Pacer with more miles than
our CV's, am I wrong?

Al




[This is message #10429 by user rondeau3 on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]

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From: doctorduke_REMOVE_575197_THIS_@yahoo.com


NADA obtains sales price information from many sources, one of which
is me as I send in a report every four months, and I usually ask for
input on this forum. Another big source for NADA is auction prices
since they are easy to find, and cars seem to bring more at auctions
than private party sales.

NADA reports three levels of prices - low, average, and high. Most
operable CVs that sell are low to average because they are not
pristine original examples, nor fully restored. Most CVs that sell
are inoperable and I do not report these prices. NADA only tracks
prices for complete and operable cars. I think their prices are in
the ballpark, especially when you realize that they do not include 99+
point cars. You have to read the fine print.

The bottom line is that prices are determined by supply and demand,
and from your own experience you realize that these cars are not in
high demand, and the reasons were outlined in the previous responses
to your questions.

Should the CV be worth more? Yes is should, considering the
performance (with a little "tuning"), styling, technology, and rarity.
On the other hand their low prices allows enthusiasts to obtain a nice
vintage car at a low price, but that is a double edged sword. If you
pay $2500 for a car, you're probably not going to lavish it with
attention. A lot of these cars fall into the wrong hands, and this
guarantees their deterioration and continued depreciation.

A Pacer for $12,000. I find that hard to believe, but the car had
such a nerdy reputation, that it's actually become a "cool" icon of
the seventies. BTW, the highest valuation I found in the NADA guide
for a Pacer is $5625, The CV carries a high value of $7450. A $12K
Pacer is definitely an aberation.

Most seventies vintage cars have relatively low values. The market
knows that they were heavy and sometimes ugly with their tacked on 5
MPH bumpers and the crude emission control technologies made them
sluggish performers. I don't think this is ever going to change. The
big horsepower cars are always going to be worth more. Most car guys
judge cars by their zero to sixty time and peak horsepower numbers.
If that makes up 90 percent of your value criteria you can guess
what's going to be high versue low value.

Another thing to distinguish is advertised versus sales prices. NADA
only considers bonafide sales prices, not ad prices, and there are
probably may cars advertised at high prices that either do not sell,
or end up selling for much less.

Duke




[This is message #10430 by user doctorduke on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]

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From: rondeau3_REMOVE_192884_THIS_@yahoo.com

It seems to me that if the CV would be a 1969 model it would be more
valuable, anything between 73 and 80 or later seems to be low value,
even though I see some pretty weird prices on some models.

I think the CV came at the wrong time in the boring era like Duke
mentionned about the 5 mph bumper for example. (I'll never forget the
first time I saw a brand new 73 Chevelle!!!).

So back to my first question, can we put the 3 levels of price for a
Cosworth in print here as a reply to my question?

Duke, if you have them will you share with me?, you gave me the high,
of $7450 but what are the other 3 levels?

My opinion is there are cars selling for $9-10k and I think the $7450
is low, but this is only my opinion.

Al




[This is message #10431 by user rondeau3 on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]

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From: rondeau3_REMOVE_396870_THIS_@yahoo.com

Hi, what is the latest prices for the 75-76 CV in the NADA book.

Also can we have a discussion about the pricing before the next
publication?

I just went surfing in the last edition of Hemming and check a few
75-76 different models.

Also, I wonder how NADA gets their pricing on other brands?

What drives the prices of some other cars of the same era?

I see 75 Dodge like Dart or Monaco going for $4500 to $6-7k in
original condition.
Then there is AMC Pacer $4250-$12,500.
76 Nove 4 Dr. needing paint $3,500.

Then there is a 76 CV for $9,950.

Shouldn't we search for the high ball price CV's and start using
them in order to drive the price up and ignore the cheap ones? Seems
like what the others are doing, so why can't we get our piece of the
pie too?
3 Years ago, big block 67 Corvettes started to go for $100k at
Barrett Jackson, and look at what a 67 BB go for since.

Seems like all it takes is to stay focus on the high dollar examples
and that's all it will take to drive the prices up.

When I got my CV appraised, the insurance co. asked me to give them
some examples of cars for sale that were in similar condition and
asked for 3 sources, I managed to find a few and they looked in
Hemming and whatever sources they could and my appraisal came to $9k
Can.

Is it time for us to act on this issue? Is there anything we can do?

What sources and prices did you use Duke last time around, can we
focus on top $$ examples, if there is such a thing or is it a loss
cause?

I can't figure out why some really junk POS like a Pacer fetch more
$$ than a Cosworth, it simply doesn't make any sense.

Let me know what you guys think, I know I may sound like a broken
record, but I can't be the only one doing these observations from
time to time???

What is it that drives the prices of certain models to these levels?

Al




[This is message #10427 by user rondeau3 on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]

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From: doctorduke_REMOVE_262324_THIS_@yahoo.com


Al - everyone has an opinion and a you-know-what, but what counts is
what cars actually SELL for in verified transactions, not asking
prices or someone's opinion of what they are worth.

Anyone can go to www.nada.com and look at the reported values for a CV
or any other car, but you also must read the explanations of what the
values mean - "We do not publish a parts car value or a 100-point show
car value".

There are CVs that have sold at auction or private party transactions
that were essentially zero or very low mile cars, and they have
fetched in the range of $9-10K. Notwithstanding the risks inherent in
buying such a car (for example, cooling system corrosion if the car
hasn't had regular cooling system flushes , regardless of mileage
unless the cooling system was drained and dried), such examples are
outside the condition range that NADA reports.

Most CVs out there have miles and wear and tear, and the range of
condition varies widely - from nice, well maintained examples with
relatively low miles (for a 25 year old car) - to beaters that were
owned by multiple Bubbas. Only a relative handful are completely
restored or perfectly preserved in original showroom condition. You
might say that NADA prices represent values for a range of "drivers"
not museum quality cars.

Sure, a '67 Corvette L-71, perfectly restored with a NCRS Duntov award
may be approaching $100K, but consider that such a car is likely to
have been professionally restored at a cost somewhere in the range of
$50 - 70K and probably hauled around on a trailer to a few shows until
the owner thinks the value has appreciated enough to offload it to
another speculator.

It's too bad that such cars have come to this fate, and I'm thankful
that there are still relatively affordable vintage cars out there than
serious enthusiasts can own, work on, and drive.

Duke




[This is message #10435 by user doctorduke on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]