I'm so Confused

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I'm so Confused

Postby h-bot » Tue Jan 28, 2003 8:33 am

From: Bruce_W_REMOVE_292586_THIS_@yahoo.com

I am still looking and doing research on purchasing my first Cosworth
but the more I talk and look , the more confused I get. I would
love to hear some feedback. I am in south Florida so more than
likely I will have to ship the car... that doesnt bother me but to
pay that much for a project car doesn't seem to make sense so project
is out of the question out of state.. besides, I am not so much of a
gear head so I kind of wanted something that didnt need much and
would be low maintenence engine wise-- maybe that doesnt exist I dont
know... I heard that the original injectors are quite a pain in the $
%#*@@ and a better way to go is with Webber Carbs... Is that
true..??? Does that also improve performance?? Does that make
the car a little more reliable???? How much can or should you do to
an original Cosworth before it becomes (transforms) to something
else?? there is a Cosworth orange one on Collector car.com with a
350 twin 4's out of the hood... Is that really a Cosworth or just a
vega V-8 with a Cosworth body... ??

Well I thought the better way to go was with a super low milage CV
that had been in storage a long time...Well I found a couple, one
in particular that was bought from Oiriginal owner and driving 1 year
and Stored in 1983 where it has been sitting since never started...
The car has 15k on the clock and paint is good and inter perfect.....
but I have heard horror storries on what happens to an engine that
sits for 20 yrs and what the coolant can do???? what am I in for
if I buy something like that engine wise???? Can the whole inside of
the engine be a corroded mess???? or is it just a matter of
replacing all the rubber seals, gaskets and good flush???

What about getting a colored one, are they more desirable... I
like the orange ones cool.. or are the blacks the ones that sell and
people want??????

One more question... looking at some of the engines of these super
low milage CV's, they look whipped.... is it a possibility that some
of these were dissconnected (speedo) and driven around over the
years...??? I cant understand how an engine can look so old and bad
and oily with only 1K or 10K on the clock...

Maybe I should just get a V-8 vega, I might have more fun with that
and it has a newer engine, less sophisticated in it... but that is
not what I want ,,,,I want a CV.... what to get.........???? so
confused...... Would like to hear some comments... what should I
watch out for...

thansk so much

Bruce
Fort Myers , Florida


Hey also anyone in South West Florida (Sarasota, Naples or Fort
Myers have one of these and a club member --just curious if I will
be the only one after I get one-- I've never seen one at a car show
down here)





[This is message #10434 by user Bruce_W on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
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I'm so Confused

Postby h-bot » Tue Jan 28, 2003 9:27 am

From: doctorduke_REMOVE_554222_THIS_@yahoo.com


You have a lot of good questions. In order to make an intelligent buy
you must educate yourself.

Join CVOA, and purchase the Twin Cam Times portfolio from them - over
200K words on the history and technology of these cars, including
recommended maintenance, problem areas, and thorough explanations of
the various CV mechanical and electronic/electrical systems. Also buy
the CV Shop manual supplement form Helm, Inc.

Keep an eye on CV ads in the Club magazine and go to the Roundup next
summer. Maybe by that time you will be sufficiently knowledgeable to
make an intelligent buy.

You have too many questions for me to answer, but as an overall
guideline, my recommendation to you is to pay top dollar for the best
car you can find, as close to original showroom conditon as possible.
The car you buy will have extensive records on both its origin,
maintenance and repair record, ownership history, location, and use.
You will spend in the range of $5-9K

On the other hand you can buy a two or three thousand dollar CV that
needs work. You will cause damage to it by trying to fix things
because you don't really know and understand the car, and the
professionals you pay will do more damage because they don't under
stand the car either. Or you might be able to find a professional who
can really restore a worn CV to "very good" condition. It will cost
you in the range of $10 - $25, and you will have one of the nicest CVs
around, worth about $7K.

Your choice!

Duke






[This is message #10436 by user doctorduke on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
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I'm so Confused

Postby h-bot » Tue Jan 28, 2003 9:37 am

From: doctorduke_REMOVE_128138_THIS_@yahoo.com

A couple of more points. As a CVOA member you will request a copy of
the CVOA Concours Guidelines, study them thoroughly, and at next years
Roundup you will be an "observer judge". By understanding the
Guidelines and how the judges score the various cars, you will learn
to recognize original components and configurations.

You will be able to determine if a car has the original cylinder case,
head, cam carrier, EFI components, alternator, starter, transmission,
and axle. Such a car is "numbers matching". Even a very nice
properly configured original car that is lacking in some of these
original components will not be worth as much to you as a properly
numbers matching car.

Duke




[This is message #10438 by user doctorduke on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
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I'm so Confused

Postby h-bot » Tue Jan 28, 2003 9:40 am

From: markrock_REMOVE_871160_THIS_@yahoo.com

Bruce:

Each of your questions could start a thread. Many of them have been
the subject of one or more threads in the past. While I know it
would be time consuming, you would gain a great deal of insight and
information just by searching on some good key words and reading the
posts.

That said, I'll state my opinions:

Buy the best car that you can afford, unless you are someone who
gains pleasure from doing the restoration work. Since you are not
a "gear head", stay away from anything that needs any work. Even gear
heads often find that they become disillusioned with the amount of
work involved, and the cost (that won't be repaid with a commensurate
increase in value). Buy a car you'll be proud to and able to drive
NOW. Don't buy a car that hasn't been driven regularly, or that
doesn't have documentation of appropriate antifreeze and brake fluid
changes. While the size of the risk of damage there is a matter of
some debate, why take a chance? If you read the posts, the main
concern is erosion of the cylinder barrels at the head gasket mating
surface. Is this common? Apparently not all that common. Can it
occur. Certainly. Is there any way to tell? Sure. Pull the head
and do an inspection--quite a bit of work. Is anybody likely to do
this? No. Can it be repaired? Yes. Does the fact that a car has
been driven diminish the likelihood of this damage? Unclear. The
issue is the frequency of coolant changes, not whether or not it has
been driven.

I consider the Cosworth a "low maintenance" vehicle. My motto has
long been, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." I'm changing my view,
but I am not where Duke and Al and others are by any means. These
are very robust cars. But they are more than 25 years old. You will
find that they perform better, present fewer problems, if they are
driven regularly, even if it is only in good weather. That pretty
much holds true for all cars. Another reason to avoid the super low
mileage car.

The original injectors are not a pain. Just change your filter
regularly and don't run watery gas through them. The Webers don't
make any significant difference, IMHO. Conventional wisdom is that
they provide a bit more low end torque and a bit less top end, but I
dare anybody to document that. Nobody has done back to back dyno
runs on the same engine and varying only the induction system. And
Hutton's graphs depicting greater HP and torque compared apples and
oranges. He compared EFI on an engine with a stock head and Webers
on a head with COE valves. The result, not mentioned in his ads, was
an increase in compression on the Weber engine (because the COE
valves don't have pockets in the tops of the valves), guaranteeing
greater torque and horsepower.

I personally put 153,000 on an EFI Cosworth with nary an injector
problem. Webers have a reputation of needing to be tuned regularly.
The EFI never needs tuned. Other than replacing a CTS and a TPS, I
never touched my EFI in 153,000 miles. But now one must begin to be
concerned about corrosion in the various connectors--not a large
problem, nor difficult to solve, but somewhat more of an issue with
the increasing age of the vehicles, yet one that can be addressed in
half an hour. Would this drive me to Webers? Not on your life.

As for color, it is a matter of personal preference. Not many
Cosworths of Color were built, but that does not seem to have yet
translated into any significant difference in value. Will it some
day? I have no doubt.

Would I buy a car that hasn't been started since 1983? Sure. Would
I pay a lot for it? Never! I have just taken gas tanks off three
cars that sat for 10 years or more. One sat indoors. All three are
almost beyond repair. I have cut the top half off one, have
sandblasted the inside of the top half and scraped the bottom half in
preparation for sandblasting, and have bought a quart of Bill
Hirsch's Gas Tank Sealer to seal it after I have welded it back
together. Is that the kind of job you want to get involved in? I
don't know about the inside of the engine--haven't looked yet. Don't
know about the insides of the calipers. Haven't looked there
either. As Duke says, CAVEAT EMPTOR! I'd buy the car because I can
fix it, and because I enjoy the fixing part as much or more than the
driving part. But if you are not into that sort of thing, beware.

Britt has a Cosworth on eBay right now. Based upon what I know of
that car from posts on this forum and from talking with Britt, it
appears to be an excellent value! Not a perfect car, but has had
engine work done so you know it is in good shape and likely to stay
that way. Clean. Peppy. Based upon what I know, I wouldn't
hesitate to drive it back to Florida. It would be a blast.

As for the appearance of some engines, I acknowledge that this raises
red flags for me.

Finally as to when is a Cosworth no longer a Cosworth, that too is a
matter of opinion. Decide for yourself based upon the debate in the
long threads addressing this issue.

Mark






[This is message #10439 by user markrock on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
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I'm so Confused

Postby h-bot » Tue Jan 28, 2003 11:39 am

From: Bruce_W_REMOVE_582601_THIS_@yahoo.com

Mark & Mike,

Thanks for the lengthy and nice replys. Some of your comments
helped alot.. From what I have learned is the low milage CV's are
priced higher $9k- $10k range and higher (but may have corrosive and
alot of rebiuld on engine work needed from sitting ))and the half
decent 50k - 60k milage ones with good engine maintenence and a few
nicks and rust bubbles are around $3500 - $5000 . Projects with poor
paint but run with some rust I saw as cheap as $1600..

Looking into what I have to do with shipping and paint and engine
work, i would have $5k+ in a project one by the time I got done with
it.... Why do all that when I can get a half decent one for $5k with
good paint.(only thing is is this is such a small conmmunity that
most of those cars have been owned several times over and over)

One in particular that I have found is from a private owner--not in
the CVOA from what I can tell and I searched through all the postings
and messages and could not find anything on the car #ID or owners
name in any of the postings... which believes me to be a car that has
not exchanged hands alot and no one has had thier fingers in it
(which I like)......he bought the car with 8,000 miles on it from
original owner back in 77 and drove it to 1983 with now 15,900 miles
then he had it repainted , new stripes kit and parked it where it has
sat since.. Now the paint is all good on it from the pics after all
it was repainted in 83 prior to parking it , 15,900 miles on clock
and he did say that he pulled it out last year and got it running.
Said he had to replace the tank --was all rotted out and the fuel
punp and it fired over, let it run for 1/2 hour and pulled it back
in... The interior is mint.. I mean mint white interior.. carpet
everything looks real good.. I will ask for more pics of underneath
the car--- I want to see more of that but the car has been sitting in
cold garge up north all those years and he sent me pics of the
engine.. I am not sure what a 15,000 mile engine should look like but
I would like to upload some pics to the web tonight and I will repost
with a link and maybe someone can look at the pics and tell me what
they think.

The engine looks dirty, some rusty and the paint is curled and
peeling on the head...also I noticed fresh oil stained all around the
head (valve cover) this might of been when he fired it over last
year , the gaskets are probally gone... I would appreciate it if
someone cold look at this pic for me.. Would I be able to flush it
all out, change all seals and gaskets, hoses, belts,
ect....everything plastic or rubber without tearing the whole engine
apart and doing a rebiuld?? i dont want to have to do a rebuild..
What else might I have to do that I havent covered???

Ok i can get it for $4000 + he said he was willing to split the
shipping with me so really $3700 for the car + $600 shipping =
$4300. What do you think

Thanks for the time and answering these messages

Bruce

Fort Myers, Florida












--- In <a href="/group/cosworthvegas/post?protectID=219233066105193209050199029077192253163098100009128121188190230091025019053061151110147">cosworthvegas@yahoogroups.com</a>, "Mark A. Rock <<a href="/group/cosworthvegas/post?protectID=029166091163127190025067203043129208071">markrock@c...</a>>"
<<a href="/group/cosworthvegas/post?protectID=029166091163127190025067203043129208071">markrock@c...</a>> wrote:
> Bruce:
>
> Each of your questions could start a thread. Many of them have
been
> the subject of one or more threads in the past. While I know it
> would be time consuming, you would gain a great deal of insight and
> information just by searching on some good key words and reading
the
> posts.
>
> That said, I'll state my opinions:
>
> Buy the best car that you can afford, unless you are someone who
> gains pleasure from doing the restoration work. Since you are not
> a "gear head", stay away from anything that needs any work. Even
gear
> heads often find that they become disillusioned with the amount of
> work involved, and the cost (that won't be repaid with a
commensurate
> increase in value). Buy a car you'll be proud to and able to drive
> NOW. Don't buy a car that hasn't been driven regularly, or that
> doesn't have documentation of appropriate antifreeze and brake
fluid
> changes. While the size of the risk of damage there is a matter of
> some debate, why take a chance? If you read the posts, the main
> concern is erosion of the cylinder barrels at the head gasket
mating
> surface. Is this common? Apparently not all that common. Can it
> occur. Certainly. Is there any way to tell? Sure. Pull the head
> and do an inspection--quite a bit of work. Is anybody likely to do
> this? No. Can it be repaired? Yes. Does the fact that a car has
> been driven diminish the likelihood of this damage? Unclear. The
> issue is the frequency of coolant changes, not whether or not it
has
> been driven.
>
> I consider the Cosworth a "low maintenance" vehicle. My motto has
> long been, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." I'm changing my
view,
> but I am not where Duke and Al and others are by any means. These
> are very robust cars. But they are more than 25 years old. You
will
> find that they perform better, present fewer problems, if they are
> driven regularly, even if it is only in good weather. That pretty
> much holds true for all cars. Another reason to avoid the super
low
> mileage car.
>
> The original injectors are not a pain. Just change your filter
> regularly and don't run watery gas through them. The Webers don't
> make any significant difference, IMHO. Conventional wisdom is that
> they provide a bit more low end torque and a bit less top end, but
I
> dare anybody to document that. Nobody has done back to back dyno
> runs on the same engine and varying only the induction system. And
> Hutton's graphs depicting greater HP and torque compared apples and
> oranges. He compared EFI on an engine with a stock head and Webers
> on a head with COE valves. The result, not mentioned in his ads,
was
> an increase in compression on the Weber engine (because the COE
> valves don't have pockets in the tops of the valves), guaranteeing
> greater torque and horsepower.
>
> I personally put 153,000 on an EFI Cosworth with nary an injector
> problem. Webers have a reputation of needing to be tuned
regularly.
> The EFI never needs tuned. Other than replacing a CTS and a TPS, I
> never touched my EFI in 153,000 miles. But now one must begin to
be
> concerned about corrosion in the various connectors--not a large
> problem, nor difficult to solve, but somewhat more of an issue with
> the increasing age of the vehicles, yet one that can be addressed
in
> half an hour. Would this drive me to Webers? Not on your life.
>
> As for color, it is a matter of personal preference. Not many
> Cosworths of Color were built, but that does not seem to have yet
> translated into any significant difference in value. Will it some
> day? I have no doubt.
>
> Would I buy a car that hasn't been started since 1983? Sure.
Would
> I pay a lot for it? Never! I have just taken gas tanks off three
> cars that sat for 10 years or more. One sat indoors. All three
are
> almost beyond repair. I have cut the top half off one, have
> sandblasted the inside of the top half and scraped the bottom half
in
> preparation for sandblasting, and have bought a quart of Bill
> Hirsch's Gas Tank Sealer to seal it after I have welded it back
> together. Is that the kind of job you want to get involved in? I
> don't know about the inside of the engine--haven't looked yet.
Don't
> know about the insides of the calipers. Haven't looked there
> either. As Duke says, CAVEAT EMPTOR! I'd buy the car because I
can
> fix it, and because I enjoy the fixing part as much or more than
the
> driving part. But if you are not into that sort of thing, beware.
>
> Britt has a Cosworth on eBay right now. Based upon what I know of
> that car from posts on this forum and from talking with Britt, it
> appears to be an excellent value! Not a perfect car, but has had
> engine work done so you know it is in good shape and likely to stay
> that way. Clean. Peppy. Based upon what I know, I wouldn't
> hesitate to drive it back to Florida. It would be a blast.
>
> As for the appearance of some engines, I acknowledge that this
raises
> red flags for me.
>
> Finally as to when is a Cosworth no longer a Cosworth, that too is
a
> matter of opinion. Decide for yourself based upon the debate in
the
> long threads addressing this issue.
>
> Mark




[This is message #10441 by user Bruce_W on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
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I'm so Confused

Postby h-bot » Tue Jan 28, 2003 11:45 am

From: rondeau3_REMOVE_190285_THIS_@yahoo.com

--- In <a href="/group/cosworthvegas/post?protectID=219233066105193209050199029077192253163098100009128121188190230091025019053061151110147">cosworthvegas@yahoogroups.com</a>, "swflamxer <<a href="/group/cosworthvegas/post?protectID=023212044098056237005218148036129208">Bruce_W@g...</a>>"
<<a href="/group/cosworthvegas/post?protectID=023212044098056237005218148036129208">Bruce_W@g...</a>> wrote:
> I am still looking and doing research on purchasing my first
Cosworth

You need to find one like mine, I bought it in Arizona, 1900 miles
south of where I live, I didn't know anything about Cosworth other
than the history about them.

I drove it home with no heater core at freezing temperature, tires
were from 1983 and it was 1999 or 2000 (can't remember).

I changed the engine oil, rear end and tranny fluid, fill the tank,
bought a spare tire and took off.

First day, I blew a tire at 90 mph and didn't notice till I slowed
down to 65.

I have since done some work to it, but no major expenses, just a few
minor things I wanted to do to make sure it is reliable.

That car always starts whenever I need it, I can drive it as often as
I want and I know it will take me there and back, it never left me
stranded anywhere.

My worst problem was a lack of power, it was very slow and I mean
slow, but I have since found out what was wrong and now, it's not a
fast car, but it moves like it should.

If I read your questions again, all I can say is I hope you'll find
one just like mine and if you were closer, I would let you have it
for a couple of days and I bet you wouldn't give it back, that is if
you are serious in wanting a CV.

I wish you all the best and hope you'll find one as reliable as mine,
if it has no power, let me know and I will tell you what I've done to
finally got it to move but I don't think you'll have my problem,
seems like it was uncommon because nobody really knew what was the
matter, all they thought was I was a constant whiner, so I assume my
problem was unique or very rare, how much did it cost to fix? nothing.

Al




[This is message #10442 by user rondeau3 on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
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I'm so Confused

Postby h-bot » Wed Jan 29, 2003 5:03 am

From: kiva5198_REMOVE_318071_THIS_@yahoo.com

Thanks Mark for the kind words about my car. I must say (unbiased of
course) it is a steal at that price. I bought this car because I knew
the history, knew the original owner, have all the original
paperwork, met the machinist, and drove the car. There was no mystery
about it. If you buy a Cosworth with mystery, you are getting just
that a mystery Cosworth. This is not the first that I have owned, but
it is by far the nicest running Cosworth I have ever experienced. I
love this car, I told my wife that out of the fourteen-odd Vegas I
have owned, none gave me back that pleasure that I experienced with
my first one. I do not want to sell this car, but I am forced to. I
have lost my second garage, and I cannot store the racecar outside
due to apartment rules. I would trust this car to drive anywhere,
anytime, and probably win some shows when it got there. I was amazed
that it was as solid as it is with that many miles on it. I would
have believed him if he said it had 30,000 on it.

When I went looking for a Cosworth to buy (a stock one) I made a list
of all the cars in my price range and weighed the pros and cons.
There were some that had been sitting for long periods of time, they
were nixed almost immediately. The cost or repairing the fuel system
and the time to diagnose problems is too high, especially if you
don't know Cosworths. I rebuilt this fuel system, except for the fuel
pumps, but I understand the f/i, and have done it before, and the
whole motor had been done, so why not the f/i too? I would not
recommend it to a novice. This car won out mostly because of it's
history, I knew it to be fact. Anything else is purely subjective on
the part of the seller, they tell you what you want to hear.

Good luck if you buy that other car. I sure felt good about not
having to worry on the drive home, or any of the 2000 miles I have
driven it in the last two months.

Britt




[This is message #10446 by user kiva5198 on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
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I'm so Confused

Postby h-bot » Wed Jan 29, 2003 5:15 am

From: kiva5198_REMOVE_878716_THIS_@yahoo.com

BTW, This is my car on this club above these messages, on our last
sunny Oregon day,

Britt

--- In <a href="/group/cosworthvegas/post?protectID=219233066105193209050199029077192253163098100009128121188190230091025019053061151110147">cosworthvegas@yahoogroups.com</a>, "Britt <<a href="/group/cosworthvegas/post?protectID=200176018237235197240138203004129208071">kiva5198@h...</a>>"
<<a href="/group/cosworthvegas/post?protectID=200176018237235197240138203004129208071">kiva5198@h...</a>> wrote:
> Thanks Mark for the kind words about my car. I must say (unbiased
of
> course) it is a steal at that price. I bought this car because I
knew
> the history, knew the original owner, have all the original
> paperwork, met the machinist, and drove the car. There was no
mystery
> about it. If you buy a Cosworth with mystery, you are getting just
> that a mystery Cosworth. This is not the first that I have owned,
but
> it is by far the nicest running Cosworth I have ever experienced. I
> love this car, I told my wife that out of the fourteen-odd Vegas I
> have owned, none gave me back that pleasure that I experienced with
> my first one. I do not want to sell this car, but I am forced to. I
> have lost my second garage, and I cannot store the racecar outside
> due to apartment rules. I would trust this car to drive anywhere,
> anytime, and probably win some shows when it got there. I was
amazed
> that it was as solid as it is with that many miles on it. I would
> have believed him if he said it had 30,000 on it.
>
> When I went looking for a Cosworth to buy (a stock one) I made a
list
> of all the cars in my price range and weighed the pros and cons.
> There were some that had been sitting for long periods of time,
they
> were nixed almost immediately. The cost or repairing the fuel
system
> and the time to diagnose problems is too high, especially if you
> don't know Cosworths. I rebuilt this fuel system, except for the
fuel
> pumps, but I understand the f/i, and have done it before, and the
> whole motor had been done, so why not the f/i too? I would not
> recommend it to a novice. This car won out mostly because of it's
> history, I knew it to be fact. Anything else is purely subjective
on
> the part of the seller, they tell you what you want to hear.
>
> Good luck if you buy that other car. I sure felt good about not
> having to worry on the drive home, or any of the 2000 miles I have
> driven it in the last two months.
>
> Britt




[This is message #10447 by user kiva5198 on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
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I'm so Confused

Postby h-bot » Wed Jan 29, 2003 6:27 am

From: ericc_seattle_REMOVE_710324_THIS_@yahoo.com

Bruce, consider this tale of two Cosworths.

I bought my first Cosworth about three years ago. I've owned and
driven Vega's and Monza's since 1980 and always wanted a Cosworth,
but could never afford one, and didn't know if I could handle the
maintenance. I looked on this board for info, and scoured the ads
for about 6 months, and finally found and bought what Duke, Mark, et
al would consider a fairly pedigreed Cosworth of color, with about
50k miles for a very reasonable price. I have documentation of every
owner privious to me (there were 9 others, so my car is a slut of
sorts), have the build sheet, the window sticker, etc, etc. I drove
the car 1000 miles home and blew the head gasket. Repairing it was
my first test of Cosworth ownership, but with the help of everyone on
this board, and the CVOA, I passed. The car, in what I consider to
be very good to excellent original condition, runs great and is a
blast to drive. And yet I rarely drive it because I'm afraid some
idiot will hit me, or there will be wet pavement, or there will be a
paving project with fresh tar, or my horoscope said my planets
weren't aligined. It sits in the garage under a cover most of the
time.

I bought me second, third, and fourth Cosworths about a year and a
half ago as a package deal. One was so rusty I couldn't even give
the body away after I parted it out. The second appeared original,
had some rust issues, but ran ok. I sold it for $2500 and was glad
to get it. The last one I have been driving almost every day since I
got it. I don't know a damn thing about anyone who owned it except
what the previous owner told me, which wasn't much. The EFI went out
on me right after I bought it, but the car I parted out had the
Webers, so I did the swap and loved it. I drive this car to work, to
the store, on errands, and pretty much everywhere else. I park it in
tight parking spots, get door dings, and don't care. I leave it out
in the Seattle weather (read rain) 24/7 because my other Cosworth and
my '77 Monza Spyder are in the garage. The carpet rotted out in the
front, it smells like a wet cat when it rains, and I grin ear
to ear each and every time I drive it. That's what I do; drive
it.

I guess my point is, you're just going to have to buy two Cosworth's:
Britt's (to drive), and the low miles one (to rub with a soft cloth
in the safety of the indoors). Personally, I couldn't choose just
one!

Eric




[This is message #10449 by user ericc_seattle on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
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I'm so Confused

Postby h-bot » Wed Jan 29, 2003 6:32 am

From: rondeau3_REMOVE_445267_THIS_@yahoo.com

--- In <a href="/group/cosworthvegas/post?protectID=219233066105193209050199029077192253163098100009128121188190230091025019053061151110147">cosworthvegas@yahoogroups.com</a>, "Mark A. Rock <<a href="/group/cosworthvegas/post?protectID=029166091163127190025067203043129208071">markrock@c...</a>>"
<<a href="/group/cosworthvegas/post?protectID=029166091163127190025067203043129208071">markrock@c...</a>> wrote:
> Bruce:
>
> How much of a project guy are you? Can you pull the cam carrier
off
> and replace the cam carrier gasket? It is a ton of work.

Snip, snip...

Mark, after reading your last post I think you should get your plaid
suit and white shoes and become a used car salesman.

I almost feel like buying Britt's car now :)))

(Sorry, I couldn't resist!!!)
Al




[This is message #10450 by user rondeau3 on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
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I'm so Confused

Postby h-bot » Wed Jan 29, 2003 1:03 pm

From: markrock_REMOVE_523792_THIS_@yahoo.com

Bruce:

How much of a project guy are you? Can you pull the cam carrier off
and replace the cam carrier gasket? It is a ton of work.

Can you put it back on without dropping the cam followers and the
shims all over the engine compartment? Without the proper tools, it
is not easy.

Do you have a tool to properly adjust tension on the cam belt?

Do you have to tool to depress the cam followers to adjust the valve
lash after the gasket has been replaced?

Do you have the tools and knowhow to remove the hood?

Do you want to do all these things?

Do you want to do some others as well? Like refinishing the cam (not
valve) cover? Like sanding and priming and painting where the paint
has curled?

Do you know whether the coolant has been changed regularly, and do
you know the condition of the tops of the cylinder walls?

Do you care about Concours? New paint puts you in a different class.

Is low mileage important to you? How many miles do you intend to
drive this car?

What is your purpose in buying this car? An investment? For fun?
On a whim? Until we know why you are buying this car, I'm not sure
we can give you good advice.

You say you don't want to have to do a rebuild. OK. So why are you
so interested in a car that you don't know anything about, that has
an engine that looks so bad that it raises red flags over whether the
claimed mileage is accurate and that just might have to have the
block sleeved? Why aren't you more comfortable with a car that has
had the engine apart and redone, and even "breathed on" a bit, one
that you can be certain is in good condition, and is cheaper to
boot? What makes you reject Britt's car? The 104,000 miles? At
153,000 miles the wear in the stock bores in my car was NEGLIGIBLE.
Could it have benefitted from new rings? Sure. But it still ran
strong. It still passed emissions checks. Moreover, the engine in
Britt's car is sleeved, freshly rebuilt, doesn't leak any oil, gets
good gas mileage, and the receipts are there to document it.

There is an old expression that fits here. Better the devil you know
than the devil you don't. If the Cosworth you are considering were
all original, including especially the paint, then I would say that
it was and ultimately would be worth more, and would be worth the
risk. Since it has been repainted, and since the condition of the
tops of the cylinder bores is unknown, IMHO its value is diminished
significantly. I repeat again, a car that has been driven but been
well maintained is often the better choice.

Finally, the odometer on Britt's car reads 004000. The odometer on
the car you are considering reads 015000. Which car APPEARS to the
viewing public to have more miles?

Finally, what is the name of the owner of this car, and what is its
number. I may have sold him the gas tank.

Mark








[This is message #10443 by user markrock on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
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I'm so Confused

Postby h-bot » Wed Jan 29, 2003 1:22 pm

From: markrock_REMOVE_775598_THIS_@yahoo.com

Al:

Throw money, not kudos!

<grin>

Mark




[This is message #10451 by user markrock on Yahoo! Group Cosworth Vegas: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosworthvegas ]
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