ladder bar install

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Re: ladder bar install

Postby vega 350 » Sat Jan 10, 2009 9:01 pm

Thanks chevyart, Could ya get me a deal on a weld in bung for a rearend locator :D i striped the rod end in it :bang: I might just have to buy a new one .
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Re: ladder bar install

Postby vega 350 » Sat Jan 10, 2009 9:02 pm

Thanks chevyart, Could ya get me a deal on a weld in bung for a rearend locator :D i striped the rod end in it :bang: I might just have to buy a new one .
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Re: ladder bar install

Postby HAULIN' IT » Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:04 am

Art, I'll offer my Two cents of opinion/explaination (for what it's worth...About Two cents :lol: ) There are several things that make this setup "not ideal". The framerails are bent with little reguard for packaging them in a car, there is ALOT of wasted clearance/space, which relates to the framerails/floor way in the car where it doesn't need to be. The ladder bars are longer than most (a problem on short wheelbase cars) this is compounded by their plan of having them under (not beside) the framerail, so now the framerail has to be paralel, above the 33" ladder bar with ample clearance throughout the suspension travel. So when you add this & the height of the framerail (3"), your about 4' foreward from the axle centerline (which is why my friend cut the rails & modifed their plan) & Vega350 saw the need to move his axle back the 3 1/2" (they are fighting this triangle up in the middle of the car). Another problem that I mentioned earlier is the heigth of the vehicle. Either the crossmember needs to be way up in the car & now your in trouble with the seats, ect. (which adds to complicating the floor tin also) or it's below the rockers, draging on the ground, but raising the bodyheigth, in the end in looks like a '70's built car, heigthwise in the back. Also, the back portion of the rail doesn't come down far enough for anycar I can figure (the top of the rail ends up too close to say the trunk sealing surface) I've seen guys double stack 3x2's for the rear crossmember just to have them hitting something. The shocks are real long & mounted so they are "made longer" by the way the shock brackets are welded, this is because they have to maintain the paralel angle. The rearend will have miles of clearance over top & no bumpstops could ever be needed because everything is so far away. What I'm trying to say is this...If the bars are mounted about an inch below the framerail (on the inside, or OUTSIDE I prefer) & the floorpan is on top of the rail, that 3" high+1" is plenty at the front because of the little arch movement, the car can be much lower & the rails aren't near as far in the car.
If you compare the basic shape of a ladderbar "rear clip" from CE & one from, say Chris Alston's chassisworks... The packaging becomes VERY clear, just in pictures. That's my take on it from playing with a few cars, Lorne
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Re: ladder bar install

Postby chevyart » Sun Jan 11, 2009 3:03 am

hey lorne thanks for replyi will get a copy of your post and get it over to competition engineering. im sure they would like to know about this problem. i hear





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he lorne thanks for reply. i will get a copy of your post and get it over to comp engineering so they know there is a problem with their design. . they are the original innovaters of alot of the cool equiptment we have today((Dick Moroso)he started hawking his ideas around here back in the 1960s at dover dragstrip in wingdale NY. i hear S&W in PA has a good Vega frame setup( they practically pioneered the vega in that part of Pa. in the 1070s, but i happen to like the comp engineering ladder link ladder bar the best. i will be back in the future with any replies i get from comp engineering and if they have any specific questions i will have you reply to them as you seem to really know what the problem isa with their setup, righ down to the nitty gritty. chevy art













2w
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Re: ladder bar install

Postby vega 350 » Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:26 pm

If it makes a differance the rear clip i got came off of an S-10 drag truck. I know comp. engineering will make the kit to your specs. other than the frame rails.My car is set 6" of the ground and the frame rails sit on where the original floor was.I have about 12" of clearance from them to the hatch.My only problem was seat position,by moving the wheels back the problem was solved.I hope :D As far as the products from CE i realy don't see that much differance in quality compaired to other companys.Other than the name.they all use the same materials they are just designed different .
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Re: ladder bar install

Postby vega 350 » Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:48 pm

Just trying to post pics
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Re: ladder bar install

Postby vega 350 » Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:56 pm

I think i figured out how to post pics. I'll try to get you guys pics this week.So you can see what i got
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Re: ladder bar install

Postby HAULIN' IT » Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:41 am

Art, The rear frame I was referring to is the "universal" set-up, like Vega 350 mentioned that's in the Summit & Jeg's catalog. My true feelings are, for the most part, you really need to get with a chassis company when doing this stuff...not the Summit catalog. The universal part of it, makes for a needed tweak here & there to fit the vehicle, that is to be expected. If they make one (rails) for a Vega itself...I have no experience with those. I've been around & helped in a couple of the universal deals & it seems to me, the rails/bars are just not in the best shape/placement. I guess allot of guys look at it...once they cut the floor off behind the front seats, they don't really care what shape or where it is from there. I look at it...once the clearance for the suspension travel is figured, the more compact the rails are, the more a guy has room for the back seat (in a bigger car), child seat :lol:, original rear seat area interior trim, fuel cell, battery, trunk hinge mounting, nitrous bottle, ice cooler & all the other things that take up space inside the vehicle. It's not as much of a "problem" as much as "different way" of looking at it.
The S&W design is similar to the CE, again...1970's style.
Vega350, I'm glad to hear you got it 6" off the ground & that your flat with the floor. That sounds like your on a good start. What do you have for clearance at the front of the ladderbars to the ground? One thing we've done a couple times is to cut the bottom 1" off the "driveshaft dip" & put a flat plate across to get a little more ground clearance there. Is your crossmember going to be back far enough to set the main hoop on where you ended up putting the unit in? That was another little quirk about the Maverick install...Additional tubing was needed to sit the rollbar on (not a big deal, but), because the main hoop would have been up in the door opening about 3", again not a big deal to some, but we wanted it inline with the "B" pillar. In the end, the ladderbars & rails were really 3" or so too long. Post the pictures where you get a chance! Lorne
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Re: ladder bar install

Postby DEMON Precision » Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:01 pm

i fit 32" ladderbars in my vega with stock wheelbase , there,s a link to my car in the project section called JUNKVEGA . i strong suggest you buy a Kirkey seat because from my experiance it,s the only seat that gives me the proper clearance around the cage , the jaz style sit way too high and i,m only 5 10ish , my buddy has 32" bars as well on his vega and it,s stock wheelbase and so far he,s been 8.30 in the 1/4 on a 10" tire , i got a good selection of images i,ve collected over the years if you need a specific image i may have something in my collection

and use photobucket for images real easy to use
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Re: ladder bar install

Postby vega 350 » Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:49 pm

Thanks for the info. Your car is gonna be sick when it's done. Keep us posted !!!! I just took the ladder bars to get the rod ends removed (they were stuck from sittin around) this weekend i should get them in the car and i'll get some pics.What would be a good starting point to set the ladder bars at? The length of the bottom bar or any other measurment i need? Chevyart has a buddy that works at CE.
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Re: ladder bar install

Postby DEMON Precision » Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:45 pm

typically with ladderbars you run 1 to 2 deg of negative pinion angle , and you set the bars in the middle of the crossmember( some have 3 holes others have 5 like mine does ) , and try to get the bottom of the ladderbar level with the ground . if you can get a copy of the CACHASSIsWORKS catolog and they have a step by step install on ladderbars and they have a write up on installing a backhalf kit , it,s a 4 link but the principal is the same
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Re: ladder bar install

Postby vega 350 » Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:49 pm

Thanks alot! Also what does it mean to preload your suspension? How is it done on a ladder bar setup?
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Re: ladder bar install

Postby DEMON Precision » Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:41 pm

vega 350 wrote:Thanks alot! Also what does it mean to preload your suspension? How is it done on a ladder bar setup?


worry about that after the car is done 100%
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Re: ladder bar install

Postby vega 350 » Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:17 pm

Here is a couple of pics so you guys could see where i'm at !
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Re: ladder bar install

Postby vega 350 » Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:19 pm

one more!
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