Fire Wall modification? (vega)

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Fire Wall modification? (vega)

Postby LL8 Vega GT » Mon Dec 27, 2010 10:47 pm

Does anybody have any pics of vega firewall they have modified? Trying to decide exactly how to do it and thought i would get some advice from someone who has done this. I am going to be moving mine back 3-4 inches, any advice would be helpful.
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Re: Fire Wall modification? (vega)

Postby Kenova » Mon Dec 27, 2010 10:53 pm

I've seen wheel barrows of various sizes used to form the indentation of the firewall.
All of the hard to make curves are there, you just cut away the parts of the wheel barrow tub that you don't need and weld it into the firewall.

Ken
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Re: Fire Wall modification? (vega)

Postby spencerforhire » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:59 am

Once you start cutting up or moving the firewall, the drag race sanctioning bodies(NHRA & IHRA) have strict rules about what other modifications are necessary, like the style of roll cage. You might want to check into what your local track will expect you to have done so as to avoid getting bounced from tech inspection on your first outing.
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Re: Fire Wall modification? (vega)

Postby LL8 Vega GT » Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:52 am

I have installed an 8.50 spec cage, should be good on that, this will be a slow car, the dragster is for speed :th:
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Re: Fire Wall modification? (vega)

Postby HAULIN' IT » Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:39 pm

A fellow I knew some years ago had a wagon that had the whole firewall moved back & was done well. A 1" or so lip in front of the cowl vent panel (that you see when the hood is closed) in the jamb area was left & the sides of the waterbox/A-pillar was cut back to this spot & boxed in. The floor was just cut off straight down from this point also. So the top of the cowl (with the hood off) was only 1" forward of what you see with the hood on. The framerails were plated where the side tin was removed & bars at an angle with the door bars came through the firewall to sit on the subframe connector & now exposed area of the stock framerail that would have been just outside the firewall originally. So the firewall was one flat piece with a 90* bend coming forward on each side to the original firewall area out the width of fender to fender. Now the interior area looked the same, (the angled area of the floorboard was just shorter) but was just 7"-8" shorter front to back, Understand?
The dashboard was in the stock location, the dashbar was just under it & they had mounted the modified brake pedal swing bracket off of it. There was minimal clearance behind the dash. The seat & column was back a few inches from stock.
The engine was moved back about 4" from what I remember, however the firewall was back much more (about 7"?), leaving the bellhousing area in plain sight. I think it was using early Camaro headers, but don't quote me on that.
It really opened up the whole deal to work on. If I had a hacked up car or was building a race-only car (no wipers, ect.), it's exactly how I would do it...The cars almost look like they were designed to have this done :wink: Lorne
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Re: Fire Wall modification? (vega)

Postby LL8 Vega GT » Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:18 am

Kenova wrote:I've seen wheel barrows of various sizes used to form the indentation of the firewall.
All of the hard to make curves are there, you just cut away the parts of the wheel barrow tub that you don't need and weld it into the firewall.

Ken


wow, good trick!
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Re: Fire Wall modification? (vega)

Postby LL8 Vega GT » Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:28 am

HAULIN' IT wrote:A fellow I knew some years ago had a wagon that had the whole firewall moved back & was done well. A 1" or so lip in front of the cowl vent panel (that you see when the hood is closed) in the jamb area was left & the sides of the waterbox/A-pillar was cut back to this spot & boxed in. The floor was just cut off straight down from this point also. So the top of the cowl (with the hood off) was only 1" forward of what you see with the hood on. The framerails were plated where the side tin was removed & bars at an angle with the door bars came through the firewall to sit on the subframe connector & now exposed area of the stock framerail that would have been just outside the firewall originally. So the firewall was one flat piece with a 90* bend coming forward on each side to the original firewall area out the width of fender to fender. Now the interior area looked the same, (the angled area of the floorboard was just shorter) but was just 7"-8" shorter front to back, Understand?
The dashboard was in the stock location, the dashbar was just under it & they had mounted the modified brake pedal swing bracket off of it. There was minimal clearance behind the dash. The seat & column was back a few inches from stock.
The engine was moved back about 4" from what I remember, however the firewall was back much more (about 7"?), leaving the bellhousing area in plain sight. I think it was using early Camaro headers, but don't quote me on that.
It really opened up the whole deal to work on. If I had a hacked up car or was building a race-only car (no wipers, ect.), it's exactly how I would do it...The cars almost look like they were designed to have this done :wink: Lorne



thanks for taking the time to write this and be so descriptive, this actually gave me a few ideas that i had not thought of. this will be a drag car and have a glass nose and front clip so every thing should be easy access. Thanks again for your time :)
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Re: Fire Wall modification? (vega)

Postby HAULIN' IT » Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:51 am

LL8, Take a look at the last pic he posted. The firewall appears to be very similar to what I was describing to you. Maybe he can post a few more pic's if you ask? Lorne
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=33339
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Re: Fire Wall modification? (vega)

Postby STSCowboy » Sat Feb 05, 2011 8:44 pm

I bought this car this way so I have no clue about what was where and were it went, lol! So I cant answer many questions other then tell you where things are now. I honestly have some questions on completing this car myself. For instance, the rear motorplate has some angles just resting on the frame rails. My "guess" is that once everything is finalized it needs to be welded to the main frame. It seems the previous builder stopped and just about the point of locating the engine and tranny in the chassis. I am not sure if I should leave it as is or move it forward/back any? Do you guys haven any suggestions on where the front of the engine should be in relation the front end?

Here are some more photos.

Joe

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Last edited by STSCowboy on Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fire Wall modification? (vega)

Postby LL8 Vega GT » Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:26 pm

Thanks for posting these pictures, this helps me out, I have not seen a curved fire wall like this, it looks like it follows the cowl vent profile.

As far as location, I can give you some pointers from a drag car stand point, looks like it should be pretty good where it sits but hard to tell from this view.

Generally for weight transfer for a car like this if your front spark plug hole is aligned with the spindle centerline you should be pretty good, higher HP maybe a little back even.
In Rick Jones book he recommends a couple inches back up to 6" but i would say that would be more along the lines of a longer WB pro stock or something. Many cars in the 9-10 second range are aligned at the first spark plug. problems can occur by moving it to far back, it will be hard to get the weight to transfer at the hit.

Depending on how much HP will determine your crank centerline. This is subject to opinion, but for a bracket car or super gas car 11-13", the lower the HP the higher it should be. Again, this follows what Rick Jones book says and i think many chassis builders would tell you, but every car is so different, there is not really a right answer.

I would be interested to know where things are at, let us know.
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Re: Fire Wall modification? (vega)

Postby STSCowboy » Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:52 pm

I need to get some 1.5" longer tubes for the 4 Link to center the rear axle in the wheel well openings. I am going to install a Rear Disc kit for the Narrowed 9". I am going to run 4.56:1 ring and pinion and full spool in the rear. Once I get the rear axle and 4 Link sorted out, I am going to install my transmission and converter then finish up the floors and wheel tubs. The previous builder installed an about 20 gallon tank in the back but I am just going to run about a 10 tank, and two batteries in the back (at least the mounting for two). I am going to make a very simple dash to mount the gauges and switch panel. Then it will be on to the front.

The trans case in the photo is a Turbo 350 but I have built a Turbo 400 for the car instead. It will cost me some HP to run it but it shouldn't break. It is a fully manual shift, reverse pattern tranny with a Trans brake.

I am building two engines for this car with the first later going into another project.

First one is:

010 Block 383
Edelbrock Performer RPM 185cc Heads 64cc, 10.5:1 Compression, Jones Racing Roller Camshaft (duration @ .050 will be around 256*), Performer RPM Manifold, Crane Roller Rockers, Holley 750DP, MSD Pro Billet HEI Distributor, Scat Forged Crank and Forged Flat Top Pistons.

Second:

010 Block 383+ .040
RHS 220cc heads, the rest I dont know yet.
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Re: Fire Wall modification? (vega)

Postby speed_m5 » Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:23 pm

This is how mine is done
firewall1.jpg
firewall2.jpg
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Re: Fire Wall modification? (vega)

Postby LL8 Vega GT » Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:50 am

thanks for posting those up, do u have any pics from inside?
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Re: Fire Wall modification? (vega)

Postby speed_m5 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:10 pm

Pretty sure i do. I will post some this evening when i get home
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Re: Fire Wall modification? (vega)

Postby speed_m5 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:49 pm

Okay here are a few of when i had the car apart doing some wiring changes.ImageImage
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