seam weld Vega body? Frame connectors

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Re: seam weld Vega body? Frame connectors

Postby 67shovel » Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:26 am

Thanks for all the input. I'm soaking it all in. I wouldn't want to try and build this car without you guys!
79 Monza wagon Pro street, cage tubs narrowed 9
73 GT Vega wagon street car 355 700r4 a/c
68 RS Z/28 302
67 SS 396
Cobra replica
65 Corvair Corsa midengine 301
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Re: seam weld Vega body? Frame connectors

Postby megavega » Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:03 pm

Most any street car guy is never gonna "twist the body" or need this. Mostly because the car will just spin street tires and never really stress the chassis from the engine. I can see this needed when you start to use slicks and make trips to the track with 450+ hp hi torq.engines. A "rollcage", meaning one with halo and windshield bars will do far more to stiffen up the chassis then a peice of tubing just welded to the pinchweld seam. Think about what your doing, your adding tubing the length of the floorpan on the outer most rocker sill, this merely makes it harder to bend the car in half from front to back in case you park it on a large anthill in the middle of the floor.
That does nothing to keep the car from twisting, and by twisting I am talking about what a engine does to a chassis from torq. the left tries to lift while trying to smash down the right side. if no crossmembers are put into this tubing down the sides its not doing anything to keep from twisitng, your just adding more weight.
Simply lay 2 pencils side by side in front of you, pointing lengthwise away from you. now pick up the end of one, no effort to do so. Now lay 1 more pencil at the front and 1 at the back, now lift up on original pencil, you have more weight there because the crossmember is gonna make it not twist so easy. With this ladder type frame you incorporate into the vega floor you must weld the floor and everything that touches it to get the benefit from tying it all together. To me to get any use of this you would need to section the floor, lay your ladder looking frame in and weld the pans/brackets all together as 1 unit, tying it all into the rocker panels.
The rollcage adds more strength because its a series of triangles,which is the base strength of any race car chassis. It ties in the unibody from front to rear,side to side. if you use sill bars these act exactly the same as the tubing your putting underneath but dont take up any room in a compact chassis.
There is no "subframe" to connect on a h body the entire floor is the frame, unlike a camaro or nova which had a sub front and you tied into the rear unibody, the vega/monza,etc is all 1 part sheetmetal stamping, the rockers are multi wall and strong. The foam filling will help with the new technology foam out for just that, but youll never put anything in or under that car of more benfit strengthwise then a rollcage welded to plates to the rockers and side to side crossmembers.
I understand some people dont want the look of the cage or the bother of it but you might also not need anything either if you fall into street car territory, just a v8 in a vega doesnt mean it needs a frame added till you get into big power. This is just my observation/expeireance with running these cars on the drag strip with multiple engines,sbc-350,406, then to big block 427,468 all were used with transbrakes and slicks so I am sure I used harsher conditions then youll find cruising to your local hang out sat night..
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1973 vega wagon-under the blue flame knife.
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Re: seam weld Vega body? Frame connectors

Postby Rickracer » Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:26 am

I agree with all of that, :th: I ran a stout 327 for a LOT of years in my first Vega with nothing but self built rear control arms hooked to a narrowed (stock Vega length) 12 bolt and never twisted anything. Then I put a NASTY roller cam 427 in it, and the chassis mods were seam welding and gusseting all the suspension mounting points, and a simple 6 point roll bar. This car went consistent (very traction limited) 11.50s in totally street trim, and eventually went (uncapped, slicked, sprayed, still traction limited) 9.70s, and with a few less streetable additions, (mainly a much higher stall converter, gearing and bigger slicks), could have gone a fair bit quicker. Still never broke or twisted anything, 8)
I can't tell you how many stories I heard over the years about somebody's friends cousin's best friend's girfriend's brother's neighbor "yanking the front tires" and "popping the windshield out" just by stomping the gas one time, :?: :? :? :bang: :bang: :? :? :?: , NEVER happened to me, :wink: 8)
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ASE Master Auto Technician, 36+ years
'76 Vega Notchback, Twin Turbo 355/TH350 (soon to be a Powerglide w/Brake), 4 link, Koni Coilovers, 3.50 geared 9" w/Spool & Moser Axles, drag only, best all motor 1/8 mile pass to date, 6.90@99mph, 6.57@107.0 on a 60 shot, Best 1/4, 9.66@139.78, still tuning...
Project Album: http://s68.photobucket.com/albums/i4/Ri ... 20Begins/'
93 S10 RCSB, Hyd. Roller Vortec head 363 ci SBC, 2800stall lockup 700R4, LS Front Brakes, Narrowed F*rd Exploder 8.8 disc brake 3.73 posi rear, 8.0s@89 mph, (all motor, haven't sprayed it yet...)and tows the Vega to the track too
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Re: seam weld Vega body? Frame connectors

Postby megavega » Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:15 am

Yes Rick, exactly, all those stories are abunch of BS, the only way a windshield is gonna pop out is if you crash the car. If the windshield kept the body from twisitng that wouldnt take long to crack the windshield on a Ohio road, they are nothing but potholes....lol :D

"my brother in laws neighbor had one of those v8 vegas with a 327 corvette motor, it did wheelies at stop lights"

maybe its because we never had a "corvette motor" in ours... :shock: :bang:
1972 hatchback, 28,000 orig miles, 427BBC/twin T4 turbo's/T56 six speed/big wheels, lowered down pro touring style-work in progress....

1973 vega wagon-under the blue flame knife.
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Re: seam weld Vega body? Frame connectors

Postby gerbsinmd » Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:50 pm

I agree those stories of popping windshields would be BS.

So he's my story: I raced a Monza with a buddy for several years, no roll cage or bar in it, or frame connectors other than what the ladder bars used, which was some channel iron bolted to the floor. We were young and dumb. After several years the gaps around the tops of the doors were no longer the same. One side you could almost stick your fingers in and the other side was very very tight at the top.
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Re: seam weld Vega body? Frame connectors

Postby Rickracer » Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:53 pm

My first Vega DID have a Corvette motor, 327, the only time it EVER did a wheelie was when I borrowed a set of slicks. I was running pretty consistent 12.40s, and everybody told me I wasn't spinning that much, went from 3.73s to 4.10s (which took me from 12.60~70s to 12.40s), then to a 4.56, then a 4.88, neither of which helped my ETs a bit, then one night I borrowed a set of 8.5x26" slicks for a couple passes........yanked the front tires about 6", went 11.91, and was out of motor probably 200' before the finish line. Went back to a 4.56 and some taller tires when I put the 427 in, :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: , I don't know if it was a Vette motor or not, but it was NASTY......... :mrgreen:
Rickracer
ASE Master Auto Technician, 36+ years
'76 Vega Notchback, Twin Turbo 355/TH350 (soon to be a Powerglide w/Brake), 4 link, Koni Coilovers, 3.50 geared 9" w/Spool & Moser Axles, drag only, best all motor 1/8 mile pass to date, 6.90@99mph, 6.57@107.0 on a 60 shot, Best 1/4, 9.66@139.78, still tuning...
Project Album: http://s68.photobucket.com/albums/i4/Ri ... 20Begins/'
93 S10 RCSB, Hyd. Roller Vortec head 363 ci SBC, 2800stall lockup 700R4, LS Front Brakes, Narrowed F*rd Exploder 8.8 disc brake 3.73 posi rear, 8.0s@89 mph, (all motor, haven't sprayed it yet...)and tows the Vega to the track too
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Re: seam weld Vega body? Frame connectors

Postby mastiff » Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:17 pm

my brother in laws neighbor had one of those v8 vegas with a 327 corvette motor, it did wheelies at stop lights

Maybe you should ask him if that corvette engine came from one of those high power vettes from 1981-82. or even the one baddest one from 1983 ( they didn't make a corvette in 83. )
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Re: seam weld Vega body? Frame connectors

Postby Rickracer » Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:31 am

Mine was actually an L82 block, I forget what year...with a large journal steel 327 crank (that was hard to find and EXPENSIVE, if I'd known how much, I would have done a 350, but I already had a NICE set of 327 pistons). 8)
Rickracer
ASE Master Auto Technician, 36+ years
'76 Vega Notchback, Twin Turbo 355/TH350 (soon to be a Powerglide w/Brake), 4 link, Koni Coilovers, 3.50 geared 9" w/Spool & Moser Axles, drag only, best all motor 1/8 mile pass to date, 6.90@99mph, 6.57@107.0 on a 60 shot, Best 1/4, 9.66@139.78, still tuning...
Project Album: http://s68.photobucket.com/albums/i4/Ri ... 20Begins/'
93 S10 RCSB, Hyd. Roller Vortec head 363 ci SBC, 2800stall lockup 700R4, LS Front Brakes, Narrowed F*rd Exploder 8.8 disc brake 3.73 posi rear, 8.0s@89 mph, (all motor, haven't sprayed it yet...)and tows the Vega to the track too
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Re: seam weld Vega body? Frame connectors

Postby cosworth0135 » Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:16 am

these stories have me thinkin as I totally agree with others, my dad asked if i was gonna do connectors on my car but i responded with my car has a torque arm there is no stress on the back half of my car and compliments of the torque arm there is also no need to weld the axle tubes to the center since there is no stress on the axle tubes since the torque arm mounts to the center i am gonna put a street friendly (got 3 kids)12 point cage in it to stiffen up .no diagonal door bars or the bars behind the back till i run an 11 flat,i will gusset the rocker bars and the main hoop to halo. but if i dont pass tech it is a street car before anything else
i currently drive a geo metro,insert silly joke here,, but i'll pass you while your getting gas
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