How much do you think its worth?

[monzam22]

Some of you may know about the vehicle im speaking of.

It is a 1979 Chevy Monza Spyder 2+2, Chevy 350, Muncie M21 and 8.2 Rear end out of a 67 Camaro.

Motor runs stout, has 993 casting heads, moderately ported. Aluminum 4 barrel intake off of 66 corvette, with remanufactured 585CFM holley 4 barrel carb (vette style), unknown cam (it is a radical cam, I just pulled it last week to inspect and it is perfect. solid lifters) Brand new HEI distributor with external coil from Whitesperformance, just did timing cover and intake/valve cover gaskets. New plugs and wires, obviously. I would say the motor is pushing a solid 300hp to the wheels. Stock stroke crank with stock rods, flattop pistons. New harmonic balancer.

Rear end is 2.73 open differential. Took cover off and everything looks great. New fluid in this as well.

Transmission freshly rebuilt, by myself. Shifts excellent. New bearings, synchros, washers, etc.

It is Corvette red (it needs paint), and the interior is tan. Seats are in excellent condition and I just put brand new carpet in it, also has a brand new back seat. Most of the interior parts are intact, but the dashboard is moderately damaged, the A pillar trim is destroyed and the kick panels are no good either. Body is rust free, has some surface rust on the frame and control arms. Front control arms have been converted to nova spindles, and also converted to 4 wheel disc manual brakes. Includes line lock. Brand new Nitto NT 450 tires, 195/50/15. Panhard bar with Traction bars in rear. Strange setup but it hooks insanely well.

Has stock 15/16 gallon tank with a Carter eletric fuel pump in the rear.

Brand new 3" exhaust with run-of-the-mill summit racing mufflers, dumping right before the rear axle.

Now for the bad- the car has a bad driveline vibration. I believe it is a combination of the engine and the alignment of the trans/rear. The engine sends a vibration throughout the car between 2000-4000 rpm. It is harmonic. It also vibrates while driving, especially between 20-60mph. I have not been able to figure it out as of yet, as I have not had time to really dig into it. At minimum I'd say it needs new motor mounts and a transmission mount.


I want to keep the car but at the same time, I have no time to work on it and I am about to go back to school full time, so I doubt Ill still have a garage to keep it in. I have two boxes full of spare interior parts, and also have two wings for it.

I have a couple pictures that will give you a general idea of the condition of the car, any takers on guessing how much this car is worth? More parting it out or as a whole vehicle?


Thanks in advance for the input guys.

Alex

[monzam22]

Come on, there has to be a guess....anybody?

[RamIt]

Probably under $3000 is my area.

I have seen a few nice v8 monza's in the last 3 years around here go for similar money.
The more the mods get questionable, the interest and price drops.

Yours I would have way more sentimental value than what you could sell it for.

[cjbiagi]

Considering the issues it has I don't think you are going to get a whole lot for it. I am curious about the rear suspension, since you have a Muncie rear and a 8.2" rearend, neither which were designed for a torque arm, I wonder if this is where the vibration is coming from? It does not appear to have a torque arm and if you only have the lower control arms and panhard bar that is not enough to control the rearend. The torque arm also helps set the driveshaft pinion angle and without that or upper control arms the pinion angle could be way off producing the vibration. Just a thought. I only see one seat in the car, so what's the interior look like? The hole in the hood is also something someone may have a issue with. It looks to me like the rear wheels are not centered in the opening (too far to the rear of the car) so this again makes me wonder about the rear suspension setup?

[monzabug350]

Looks like the drive shaft is angled towards the driver side also.

[monzam22]

Thanks for the replies guys. This is the first time I have ever seen a rear end set up like this, and I really don't know where to start as far as diagnosing the vibration goes. I can't find any drivetrain specialist shops that can aid me, let alone try to diagnose the vibration on this car which I would consider a "specialty" vehicle. The wheels do look a little offset to the rear don't they? I never noticed that. The driveshaft appears to be straight down the center though, which is a good thing. Anybody in the Florida area want to check this thing out and give me their input? I'm not bent over backwards by any means trying to sell the car, just more frustrated than anything as I have done alot of work to the car already.

Also, I will take some more pictures in a couple days when it is nice out, so you can get a better look of the overall vehicle.

PS- I put the passenger side seat in it, the backseat has not yet been installed.

[Kev442]

The farther north you live, the more value a rust free car has. But, seeing how the car has no torque arm and the huge vibration you describe, it may actually be more valuable parted, assuming you can get $12-1500 for the drivetrain. I'm hoping to sell a Tx rustfree roller w/title this spring for $1000 with extras included (exhaust manifolds, V8 mounts, driveshaft, and either bellhousing or auto tailshaft needed, heck, I'll even throw in a 305)

[bugdewde]

Just in case you're not seeing it..... As others have mentioned, it appears your car is missing the TORQUE ARM which runs along side the driveshaft. This limits the twist of the axle (or up and down movement of the u-joint) while under acceleration on the Monza or '75 and later H-bodies with the 2 lower control arms and the Panhard Bar....

This is known as the "3-link" style rear (2 lower control arms + 1 panhard bar = 3 attachment points).
or "Torque Arm" style rear. The Panhard bar only centers the axle left and right in the body.... it isn't supposed to limit limit axle twist.... which seems like it's the only thing keeping yours from completely flipping backwards.

Earlier H-bodies use the "4-link" style which use the same style 2 lower control arms, AND also 2 upper control arms to limit axle twist (u-joint moving up and down).
2 + 2 = 4. It does NOT use a torque arm nor does it use a panhard bar. The 4 control arms keep the axle centered left and right as the two upper arms are angled inward/outward.

I've attached a pic of what your car should have, since it has the panhard bar, and no upper control arms, it MUST have a torque arm.... there is nothing to keep the axle from twisting up and down.
When the driveshaft turns the pinion shaft/gear, it forces the ring gear downward (causing the axles/wheels to turn forward), this downward force on the ring gear, in turn forces the rear end housing to rotate UP at the u-joint in an arc...... the torque arm keeps it from twisting too far up, binding the u-joint and causing vibration.

I hope this helps...... looks like you need the torque arm.

Monza 3-link Top View illustrated.jpg

I've also attached a youtube video of what you are probably experiencing..... the axle twisting under acceleration or load.... it's called "axle wrap".
To many of us in the off-roading and 4-wheeling community where our Jeeps are put under heavy load (throttle from a dead stop) to get over logs, stumps, rocks, etc... causes the leaf springs to flex or wrap .... which allows the axle housing to rotate up.... snapping off the u-joints and ruining the pinion ears or driveshaft.
Notice how the axle rotates upwards at the u-joint when he puts it under a load at about the 1 minute mark .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ny33NtNdFOE

This one shows a weak 4-link set up failing.... causing the axle housing to rotate to extreme... which breaks u-joints and such. You gotta have a torque arm.... you don't have anything to keep it from twisting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08UIvr6Sotk

This is what a torque arm does... they call it an antiwrap bar..... yours is missing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef6lTenmPUo

[monzam22]

Holy crap batman, actual HELP! Well you just gave me hope. The only concern I have is....well, its a camaro rearend and a muncie in a monza. Do i have to get a torque arm custom fabricated or what? It's worth a shot.

[bugdewde]

The only concern I have is....well, its a camaro rearend and a muncie in a monza. Do i have to get a torque arm custom fabricated or what? It's worth a shot.

Ouch..... I don't think the Muncie has torque arm provisions..... guys have attached them to the trans cross member with a bushing.

Camaro rear has attachment points if it's a 3rd gen or newer. Some guys have attached them with brackets using the diff cover bolts... or welding to the cast iron housing, which is said to be more difficult/expensive.

I used the search button for "torque arm" and got these results for you. Lots of reading and pics. I think Justin at Overkill Racing makes torque arms for non-torque arm applications.
https://www.google.com/search?sitesearc ... rque%20arm

[monzam22]

It is a first gen rearend...

[hammerdown7]

One thing that really makes this rear suspension different is the it also has this extra set of lower control arms that work like a snubber of sorts that probably limits rear axle movement to some degree. If you are able to mount a torque arm these extra bars should be removed. Another advantage of the torque arm is that it transfers a downward force on the axle under acceleration which helps eliminate wheel hop.

Dick

[cosvega76]

You'll have to fabricate your own torque arm. Here's a thread where my buddy Dave made his own along with a Watt's linkage for centering the rear end:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=25789&hilit=watts+linkage

This is what the Bob Bondurant School of High Performance Driving made for their SN95 Mustangs:

p143494_large+2000_Ford_Mustang_GT+Rear_Suspension.jpg

Chuck

[Kev442]

Giving someone with "no time, no money and going back to school" the idea that a factory torque arm is the solution is pretty much a waste of time. Neither his rear or his transmission are set up to do it as we all now hopefully understand.
Maybe I'm crabby today, but all it did was give him false hopes of an easy solution to a complex problem. Unless OP is a fabricator, his ride is at a dead end, which is why I figure he is better off parting it or sending it down the road.

[bugdewde]

Maybe I'm crabby today, but all it did was give him false hopes of an easy solution to a complex problem .

I wouldn't say "crabby".... you hit the nail on the head. Realistic, would be what I'd call it.

It wouldn't be an easy fix, without some fab work.
A stock h-body rear swap and a shortened torque arm mounted to the trans crossmember would make it a driver.
I would imagine a stock 7.5" rear and torque arm wouldn't be too expensive or difficult to find.
Getting it shortened and attached to the crossmember would be an extra cost......unless he knows someone..... so it may not be an option for him.