Big Bro 2

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Big Bro 2

Postby monzabug350 » Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:15 am

I was surfin de net this morning and came across this web site "".What got my attention was the article about big bro to have legislation passed to make it illegal to work on late model trucks. I know a lot of H-body owners have trucks and although this is about trucks,from what I read this would,if passed,sooner or later include cars.It is mostly about the factory software and modifying it outside of what the factory would allow.(They don't allow a lot anyway outside of factory "upgrades") and "any mods" would be illegal,say something like adding a K&N air filter to your turck.I can see it now....some little limp wristed, pencil neck geek saying with a lisp "OOOHHH NNNNOOO,that would change the air flow and the computer MIGHT not work right!!!" And what would this do to the aftermarket industry??? Well anyway,SEMA is on top of this and that's a good thing they are working to get the legislation modified(!) to allow changes to your vehicle that are in line with the rules. I think that the people that are proposing these regs., are afraid of the aftermarket guys are going to cut in on their game. I know manfacturers (?) warranties have in the fine print about changing or "modifying" things like engines,trans,fuel systems and the like that would void the warranty,BUT if you use their "factory approved parts",that's cool with them.Yeah, The big 3 make a butt load of performance parts,that can make a kick ass ride,but we gearheads JUST CANT RESIST F.....ING WITH THE DAMN THING!! No matter how much the factory puts into making it go faster,gearheads can always find a way to make it jusl a little bit better...right? Anyway,check the site out and see what you think..its mostly a diesel truck site (some totally cool trucks!) but you can see where this is going .Ok that it,gonna get ready for the 4th,and have some fun blowing shit up!! HAPPY AND SAFE 4th to all!!!
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Re: Big Bro 2

Postby cjbiagi » Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:24 pm

This has been going on since the mid 70's when emission controls were routinely being bypassed and catalytic converters were being replaced with "test pipes". It is nothing new that there are bureaucrats trying to put their nose where it doesn't belong. SEMA and the aftermarket have done a lot to produce accepted parts and will hopefully continue to do so. The aftermarket is big business and they always seem to find a way to survive, hopefully that will continue. With most new cars running as strong as they do most people don't even think about bypassing emissions like they used to, most aftermarket parts have exemption numbers that are allowed. However, it is always wise to stay on top of proposed legislation to make sure our rights are not taken away. It was common years ago to undergo a visual inspection to see if there were any changes, however the people who work in testing stations are really not trained or equipped to know what they are looking at with all the different makes and models. So now it is just a plug in test to the OBD port to see if there are any codes.
Clyde.........75 Monza 2+2
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Re: Big Bro 2

Postby Sunula66 » Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:38 pm

Well as far as not honouring warranty when a mod is made or an aftermarket gadget is added, I don't give a rat sass! I pay large for a new vehicle as in the past, I'm sure everyone knows how big a fight you have on your hands right from the get go whenever a repair under warranty is needed! So the car companies scare everyone into thinking that ppl will damage something when in true fact a lot of add ons actually make vehicles more efficient on fuel and add life to the vehicle by making better use of the untapped potential as in restorative power! I hates the new stuff anyway and don't forget, the ridiculous purchase price is so they will recover repairs as there junk is built anywhere but in N. America !!...kinda what you were tryin to say wasn't it :lol:
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Re: Big Bro 2

Postby MonzaRacer » Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:12 am

Moss-Magnuson Act covers you on warranty with aftermarket parts, they have to PROVE you mods destroyed the viability/longevity of said vehicle,,,, kind of like a 175 shot of NOS on a stone stock 305 TPI Camaro, that guy did not get full warranty, he got engine swapped for free, as his warranty was nearly up dealer allowed him to purchase a "crate" forged piston 350 replacement, yes GM did sell for about a year and half, one of those with L98 aluminum heads even.
He had to foot bill for some sundry replacement parts like swapping in 350 Camaro Prom, new injectors and I believe he actually bought EO headers. GM still foot major part of labor bill.
But the Moss-Magnuson Act protected people because it looked like if you used Autolite crap plugs, aftermarket fuel/air/oil filters OEMs wanted to corner OE replacement parts,at least for warranty period.
Honestly if the tail pipe tests clean and no actual harmful emissions come from engine, I say who cares?
Me and a friend were ,at one time working on a vapor recovery system that would retrofit any car, fuel system, computer. Actually work independent of the factory or ECM. and only be reliant upon engine to provie a small vacuum source and vent source to burn collected hydrocarbons. One manufacturer had a very reliable electrically driven pressure/vacuum pump, toyota I believe, as part of their emissions setup. It allowed for sucking up fumes as you refueled, allowed for a tank/system closed test etc.
We had decently sized charcoal canister, would have allowed for up to 60 gallons of fuel load or a dual tanked truck, without adding capacity. It would have allowed convenient sizing but in painted or bare aluminum finish(satin,polished,etc) and actually reduced raw fuel smell, fuel loss due to vaporization sitting some.
It was to be timed appropriately AND we had idea where it might be adaptable to STOCK applications where your computer could use our system in event factory parts were discontinued.
BUT testing, approval, and sourcing the actual parts were leading to a nightmare,,,oh and EPA kept saying that if we sold this kit and let you put it on your 77 Monza, which at best had limited vapor recovery (our system would have made it nearly vapor free) would violate bunch of "laws" on books.
Namely it would allow a person to modify a cars emissions even if not out of compliance/lack of parts/etc.
Even though we would have been help to environment on older cars. They didnt want someone pulling a 2xxx car in, remove all emissions, slap on converters, our kit and expect compliance.
Even though our product was not geared to such plans, it could be used to destroy new car system.
Seems to me they were blaming us for someone breaking law, kind of like liberals blaming a 9mm handgun for jumping into a guys hand and forcing said guy to go on killing spree.
See we had plan of a tank temp sensor, car temp sensor, small controller with timer , an actual tank pressure sensor, vent/purge valves, all of which would be commercially available, OEM grade parts. We had even talked with one fuel cell company that would allow a pass through with tank vents, vapor hook ups and sensor all in one and it would be sanctioning legal for most racing for specific classes.
Like a fuel cell for a 4th gen Camaro but allowed the car to keep vapor recovery to a point, if using stock filler neck.
Going off current refilling requirements by EPA a car can only fill so fast to allow passive recovery to keep up with displacing fumes as tank fills rather than through neck and into air.
by using our setup the pump kept pulling air through filler and fumes from tank as it fills up. After which tank would pull short vacuum on tank to verify no gross leaks, like loose/missing cap, then after time/temp cycle the pump would pull tank down to vacuum and hold.
After startup, allowing for reasonable time for car to go closed loop so as to gain fuel control vent solenoid would open pulling fresh air through vapor canister, and sucking collected fumes into engine to be burned. We even had plans for a race only switch, so it would not affect AFR in competition but still maintain a certain amount of functionality. AND we had self test capability and rebuilding of charcoal canister available/capable. Just R&R the contained module.
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Re: Big Bro 2

Postby Monza Harry » Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:18 am

That is a needed project for sure! There is currently not an easy way for even an advanced DIY'er to do this with an "EO" aftermarket EFI system which would surely clean up the tail pipe emissions, which is the intent of the law while clearly not the letter of the law. One could argue intent vs. letter in court (and win) but that is really outside practical for all but the richest of individuals! I hope that you continue on this quest and win! Harry
I'm not a hoarder I'm a preservationist 78 Monza Spyder (Soon To Be 2+2 with Spoilers)
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