T-5 / 3800 Into an H-Body

[vegastre]

I need input for anyone that is familiar with WCT5 trans and Series ll motors and of course the H-body platform.

I will need to use a S-10 Bell Housing from a 94-95 2.2 motor 60 degree because of the starter being located on the drivers side. This gives rise to the fact I will need to use a WCT-5 transmission Ford bolt pattern.

Problem One: Research has told me a S-10 T-5 has a shifter location too far forward and a Camaro T-5 too far rearward in addition to the 17 degree tilt bell housing and tail shaft. NixVegaGT simply states by swaping in the a Ford T-5 tail shaft the shifter location will be close to stock location, Simple enough or am I overlooking something?

Problem Two: Common sense says a Camaro 3800 flywhell and pressure plate is the way to go.

Problem Three: Will the Camaro HTOB swap over or S-10?

I know this is not a common swap to the H-Body crowd but any input appreciated.

[tking66]

I have a Camaro T5 in my Skyhawk and I think the shifter is in a great location. It's back a bit from the stock shifter, but I have long legs and my seat is back, so it works for me.

[vegastre]

Thank you for the input on shifter location. The Camaro T5 is certainly an option. I'm leaning toward a WC Ford T5 as this will not have the 17* tilt tailshaft but dollars and condition will most likely make my mind up.

[vegastre]

The Camaro T5 is certainly an option

UPDATE: March 2013

After some research I bit the bullet and bought a used 2000 Firebird wcT5. Not crazy about the 3.75 first gear but the 0.72 fifth gear should match up well with my 3:42 ring gear. They say the reason GM went with the 3.75 first gear so it would spin up faster. Ok, we will see. First gear looks sorta useless on paper. Shift before you get through the intersection. I have never driven a v6 T5 Firebird/Camaro.

Anyone done a tilted T5 in their Hbody?

It came with the Firebird 3800 bell housing and related HTOB stuff which I think I will use The Factoy Firebird 18 degree tilt has me a little worried as to tunnel fitment and shifter location but the bell looks really small and the trans looks like it will fit. I am sure a BFH will be needed in a couple of spots. Looks to be about the same length as the TH350.

Lets see? what have I missed? Has a VSS gear drive but I was told the TH350 mechanical will slip right in place. Seems to good to be true. The recyclers is supposed to be getting me a Camaro flywheel. Should I use the Camaro fluid reservoir? S-10? Oh well, I have plenty of time to figure it out. With help of course.

[marco_1978_spyder]

That steep geer might have an advantage for the "Stealth streetlight takedown" ..

With a gear like that, you can ease off the clutch with NO gas.. the car just burbles forward a very tiny bit and doesn't stall... do this as the other light just changes to red (no green arrow to wait for). One second later, on green you just stab the gas... the car immediately lurches off the line, and gets the engine right to redline, in that exact instant, before even getting to the other side of the intersection you bang 2nd, right in the powerband, and no one knows where you went.. Likely the into future.

[vegastre]

and no one knows where you went.. Likely into the future.

I hear you Marco...
The 3.75 was used in 4/6cyl cars. I can see it for the 4cyl but a V6? more like 3.35. Will see after everything is working. The 4L60E behind the the 3800 has a 3.08 first which seems about right. GM/Tremec made a ton of these T5 and I have never driven one so I don't have a lot of room to bitch.

[80 MONZTA]

That first gear will likely be nice for cruising around in parking lots.
The T-5 has been mounted at that F-body angle in some members cars. Click here: this topic is about a T-56 install, but halfway down 73astregt shows how his T-5 is mounted.

[72 SS PNL]

the 5spd camaro/firebirds with the performance axle were faster than the GT stangs of the same era , also were easy to drive and fun

[vegastre]

also were easy to drive and fun

Thats the the object with my decision to run a standard. To see how the T5 will mesh up with the Supercharger? Funny, I have owned a ton of old school four speeds but never a 5speed. Thus, a T5 is/was a complete mystery to me although having one sitting on my bench in the flesh solves a great deal of that.

[vegastre]

The T-5 has been mounted at that F-body angle in some members cars

Well sort of, the trans is sitting straight up with the trans cross member adapted. I am planing on using the 18 degree tilt/skew exactly as the Camaro/Firebird orientation. I seem to be the first here, Guinea Pig again I guess =)

[80 MONZTA]

Well sort of, the trans is sitting straight up with the trans cross member adapted. I am planing on using the 18 degree tilt/skew exactly as the Camaro/Firebird orientation. I seem to be the first here, Guinea Pig again I guess =)

Oops, tiny details.

[73astregt]

to do the t5 as i did i used the monza bellhousing and cable clutch, hays 10.5 inch street clutch and flywheel and as mentioned reworked the custom crossmember to fit the angled trans mount of the camaro. to get the shifter into a more favourable orentation than a stock camaro shifter i used a hurst billit plus camaro shifter and turned the handle 180 in the housing so it would lean toward the driver side better. to use the stock camaro shifter with the trans straight up like mine means you would have had to have one very long arm to reach the shifter as the camaro one is canted to the passenger side to make up for the 18 degree tilt of the trans in the camaro.(keep in mind my engine block is a two piece rear seal block and tim is running a tuned port motor) when tim mccabe had the t5 in kermit he used the tilted camaro bellhousing and stock camaro shifter with a hydraulic clutch using i think an s10 slave cylinder but you could ask him on that to be shure. i bought his t5 from him as a spare when he did his t56 conversion as he had just recently done a rebuild on it. as said ask tim for shure and also i think the camaro bell is for a 168 tooth flywheel instead of a 153 tooth like mine so i believe there will be more BFH work on the tunnell to get clearance. just watch you dont go too far on the driver side of the tunnell and cause interference with the gas pedal! edit looking back thru the posts here the ford tail shaft was mentioned ala nixvegagt, the one he was debating on using i think was an older ford t5 housing and they do have an angled trans mount just not as much angle as a camaro one, im not shure on the newer camaro ford pattern t5 trannys. also i believe nick found a difference in where the speedo gear was between the camaro and ford tail housings and either would have had no speedo or try to mcgyver up a way to mount the gear to get it to work. at the time nick was also mounting the engine farther rearward and that was causing issues with the shifter position. mine is just to the rear of the stock holein the floor but still far enough ahead that it clears the e brake handle fine.

[Monza Harry]

The main detractor for me about that 1st gear is the spread to 2nd. My baby brother has had at least 15 2nd gen Camaro's with stick shifts (no they didn't all start out that way) and he was somewhat ( ) BRUTAL on the transmissions he used the saginaws that had the zoomie 1st 's never lasted the week as the 2nd or 3rd slam into second gear usually sent them to the great drag strip in the sky! Too much difference from 1st to 2nd and the trans usually couldn't take the pounding from his 300/350ish HP 350 in that size car. Just something to be aware of (you are using a different trans and car and probably not a 3:08 gear and 295/50 gt Qualifiers on a 3700# car) Hope to have helped Harry

[vegastre]

Thanks for the input, much appreciated. I know for some this is old news by now but not for the 3800 or me =)

Tilt: I was out doing some measuring and it looks like everything will fit fine using the 18 degree tilt. The bell housing is very small, about the same size as a stock H-body bell.

HTOB:The Firebird/Camaro HTOB seems like a natural fit.

Tail shaft: This is a 2000 model T5 and has the reluctor instead of the gear.

Transmission Brace: Hopefully pretty close to the TH350

Shifter: As you mentioned it angles back to the passenger side and this may be enough.

Rear splines: Same as TH350 I hope.

Flywheel: I haven't got a Flywheel yet but going with the stock Firebird standard. Its a small bell.

So, all this aside are you happy with the swap and is the trans a good driver?

[73astregt]

i think you will be happy with the t5 once you get it set up, mine is from an 88 iroc with the mechanical speedo(v8 world class) yours being from a v6 should work good with the 3800 depending on rear gear ratio,i run a 3.42 rear gear on 25.6 inch tall tires(p265 50 r15 8 inch vette rims)motor is 355 with etec 170 heads, hydraulic roller cam, rpm air gap intake,650 cfm edelbock carb(i have an 800 cfm as well wich wakes it up quite a bit!) 650 is for cruising and a bit of fuel economy.i would say that first is a bit short in my combo but not bad just peppier than a four speed,gets out of the hole quick for a light car on the streetand having that 5th gear is the best of both worlds gives me that good bottom end and i can cruise the highway at 70 to 75 mph around 2100 rpm all day! if you are worried about strength in the trans there is a company in florida called http://www.5speeds.com that makes a billit plate to support 5th gear that is supposed to help the trans a lot, mine is stock and ive had no problems so far and i do beat on it pretty good by times(estimated 435 hp 435 torque)i dont remember if you are going fuel injected or carbed or using a computer but isnt the camaro(95 to 2002) the 3800 as well?if going fuel you might be able to use the engine and trans harness to hook everything up imnot shure on that, anyway for the speedo you could get an aftermarket electronic one i believe that will work with your trans instead of trying to change out the tail end and as far as the reverse lights go there is a plug on the left side of the main case(kinda oval with two pins in it) you can get the two wire connector for it from a 95 on up v6 camaro or firebird and just extend your wires from the car down to it(was a very simple two wire hook up on mine) my trans crossmember i used was originally set up on a th350 and then we made the angle on it for the t5. overall id say it was a pretty easy swap(mostly bolt in)you will have to get a drive shaft made using the yoke for the t5 (yoke is shorter than a th 350 in the splines and a different count) and the driveshaft is overall shorter as well. ONE THING TO WATCH OUT FOR IS make shure when you measure for the driveshaft your car is setting at the proper ride height after the trans and everything else is installed and if you are using adjustable rear arms get the rear diff where you want it first, as i mentioned the spline engagement on the t5 yoke is short (about three inches overall if i remember right) so you will want to make shure you have the right engagement to allow for suspension movement and not drop the driveshaft out or have vibration problems from not enough engagement. too far in will damage the trans as well. i would say the t5 was the best change i made to the car without spending the money for a tko 500 or 600 and having to chop up the tunnell to get it in. p.s. as far as the reverse wires having anything to do with the neutral saftey in the puter i have no idea on that.