2004R transmission angle

[my79monza]

I am ready to build the rear mount for my 2004R and am curious as to the correct transmission angle.
I have installed the radiator and have adjusted the rear of the 2004R until the fan blades have the same clearance top and bottom. which is 1 1/16"
Does this sound like the right way to determine the rear elevation?
Merle

[cjbiagi]

The driveline should be installed "in phase" with the rearend. It has little or nothing to do with the fan/radiator relationship. The angle of the engine/trans needs to be checked to get the correct relationship between the angle of the trans vs the angle of the rearend. Here's some info worth reading.
http://jniolon.clubfte.com/drivelinepha ... asing.html
http://www.hotrodhotline.com/md/html/dr ... monics.php
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/driveline/

[chevyart]

merle. i would try and set the ENGINE angle at 0 or down 1-2 degrees( MAX). this is probably where the factory sets engine angle. angle more than that will then start messing with tranny and engine fluid levels. with engine angle set around those numbers, if you have a factory rear still in the car, you should be fine with the pinion angle.(brackets for control arms are welded at a certain angle to give you your non adjustable pinion angle, coinciding with the factory angle of the engine. the sites that CJ gave you are probably very good to see how that all works. any more questions, just post and someone will try to help some more. good luck with the new tranny. my buddy just picked up a 200 tranNY for his vega. they make alot of good parts for them nowadays to make them alot stronger. art

[Fastmax32168]

You can buy a cheap angle finder gauge at harbor freight or equivalent if you dont have one. It is very easy to use and as you can see in the links provided or with some googling the important thing is its relationship to the angle of the rear.
Roy

[bugdewde]

Not specific to 200 trans, but specific to relationship to rear pinion angle.

When I had a trans mount made for a T-50 5-speed for my first Vega, I didn't take into account the possible difference in heights of the two different trans.
I simply had the stock 4-speed mount lengthened to match the 5-speed. I had driveline vibrations the whole time I had the car.
When I did the 5-speed swap into my current '73, I re-used the old modified mount, temporarily(it's still in the car ). It does vibrate, but I haven't destroyed any u-joints(in either car).

On one of my Jeep's larger suspension lifts (raising the trans further up over the rear pinion), the driveline angle was so bad, I installed motor mount lift blocks to raise the engine/trans/transfer case combo, to reduce the driveline angle. Having installed a body lift also (no driveline involved), with the motor mount lift, I didn't have to relocated the radiator since the fan was now too low for the shroud.

Definitely go with the rear pinion angle set-up.... forget the radiator set-up.

[my79monza]

Angle finder from Harbor freight is on order.
Will be curious to see how close I am in lining it up with radiator, I'm guessing it will be too high at the rear.
Merle

[chevyart]

merle when you get the angle finder, be careful where you put it to get your reading. i would never use the tranny pan as alot of times the bottom of pan is not parallel with tranny centerline.on engine, dont usae your air cleaner, and i would never use the top of the intake(with carb off) as they are sometines ground out of level to conpensate for an engine that is placed out of level(tilted down in rear at the factory). best place on tranny is the flat spot on rear of spline coming out of the back of the tranny, or on the front of engine on the harmonic balancer(put a socket on big bolt and angle finder on bolt. do the same on the pinion yoke in rear of car. i would never use any casting part of rear end for a good reading. now that you have the two readings, you still have nothing, as you dont know how much travel you have in rear pinion under load. factory suspension moves more than race suspension. leaf spring suspension moves more than factory four link.. bad part is that you really have no way to adjust the rear (unless you have ladder bar or 4 link, which is adjustable).. only adjustment you have on your car is you could probably put a shim under tranny mount if you had to raise the rear of tranny up.. let us know what readings you get and we can work from there. sometimes when one gets a angle finder it is like a gorilla getting a calculus book.thats not aimed at you merle, just a statement, meaning the tool alone is not enough and often misleading. good luck art

[my79monza]

Thanks for the info.
I intend to use the end of the tranny output shaft.
This all brings up another issue/question.
What is the level one starts from? tranny leverl or body level?
Does one make sure the body is level presumably by using a level at the rocker panel lower seam and then do the tranny from there?
the car has to be up on stands to allow room to work under it so I have to make the assumption that the rear axle has to be in the position it would be if on the ground?
I imagine that I can put a jack under the pumpkin and raise up until the car just clears my rear jack stands and go from there.
I am having to fabricate a rear tranny crossmember and torque arm bracket so it is kinda crucial I get this right the first time, I have a Hooker crossmember for the Tutbo 350 that will need only minor modifications to work for the tranny plus I can weld a bracket from it for the torque arm.
That's the plan we'll see how it goes as I'm getting more anxious to hear this thing run.
Merle

[Monza Harry]

Hi Merle if the intake isn't installed yet use the block for your inclinometer (angle finder) you should be able to use a straight piece of tubing or a short level (2') to set your inclinometer on for the engine. Now I don't know how we are supposed to set our pinion angle to be in phase when a torque arm keeps it aimed at the tranny? I have read quite a lot about suspension theory and never have I seen anything on this subject! does anybody have any information on this? Merle I would LOVE some pic's of your tranny mount as this will be the same tranny I plan to use, (I already have it) and I have some idea's for the crossmember, but nothing I'm that in love with yet, I do have a torque arm mount idea that I am in love with* but if yours is better I'm in. Please keep us posted. Harry * I will try and post some drawings and post them up for everybody's scrutiny.

[cjbiagi]

Actually the torque arm does help align the rearend and engine angle. If you have ever had the front of the torque are off it's amazing how much leverage you have and you can easily rotate the rearend. So, the torque arm does help set the rearend angle to factory design specs. However, you should still have the engine set at the correct starting point to help maintain everything as designed. I am not sure what the exact factory angle is offhand though, I could try and measure mine if that would help? I have a digital angle finder that I use for the front end alignment, I would just need to figure out where to set it at.

[chevyart]

factory engine angles are sometimes aimed down in the back to get clearances. if you dont have to get any specific clearances then shoot for level engine. i would never consider going more than 2 degrees down in rear unless it was absolutely necessary. remember, engine angle and tranny angle are the same thing when tranny is bolted to engine. if it were my car i would put it on 4 jackstands and level the car off the rocker panel seam on bottom(you can put shims of plywood under the jackstands to level it off, put the inclinometer on rear spline of tranny and bring rear or tranny up to level, or 1-2 degree down angle(check clearances around tranny bolts to firewall clearance) and then bolt tranny crossmember and mount to bottom of tranny and fabricate it to framerails or whatever area it is going to attach to.. from here i guess you can bolt on your torque arm and and let the car onto the ground(level ground) and then check the pinion angle at ride height. you will have to crawl under there or go on a drive on lift (easiest method). as i said before, the correct way to get the actual pinion angle is at ride height, drive shaft off and put a socket on the pinion nut and put the inclinometer on the socket and get your reading.after you get those two readings i could probably comment on whether the rear angle is correct to coincide with the engine angle. one point about setting the rear angle(pinion angle) is knowing how much the rear end rotates upward under load(how many degrees upward). factory 4 link usually gives up 4-6 degrees up, factory leaf spring gives up 5-7 degrees up. racing 4 links and ladder bars usually 0-1 degrees up. i dont know what a factory 3 link suspension gives up(like the monzas have).. if the rear angle is off i am not sure how you would change it to get it to proper angle.. tranny mount could be shimmed up a little(if its pointing down already) to help adjust an incorrect angle. let us know about your progress. art

[Fasterthansome]

My Transmission tailshaft points down a few degrees and my pinion points up a few degrees.

[Fastmax32168]

Merle,
The angle of the car makes no difference nor does the angle that you start with. The important thing is the relationship of the angles between the engine/trans and the rearaxle. IE whether it is 2 degrees on the trans and 3 degrees on the rear is the same thing as 8 degrees on the trans and 9 degrees on the rear. Also you want to measure these when the vehicle is at its normal ride height as has been noted this changes as the rear goes up and down. Personally I want it smooth going down the highway which is whey I measure and set them at normal ride height.
Roy

[my79monza]

OK have used my Harbor Freight angle indicator and have exactly 2 degree down at rear of tailshaft which equates to a strong 3 degree down in front of carb base.
Don't think that is enough to screw up the carb floats is it?
Merle

[Fastmax32168]

Nope
Roy