80 231 Buick V6 flywheel prob

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80 231 Buick V6 flywheel prob

Postby Justa 6 » Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:47 pm

A couple years ago smoked the clutch in my 80 Sunbird. Took weeks to find parts. It was not RIGHT from the start as it engauged about 3/4 pedal, no matter the adjustment. Have changed many times over the years without a prob. Pulled it last Tues and the disk, while showing signs of wear still showing all lines. I have the step up flywheel and again can't find a correct pressure plate/clutch. Even the Clutch Shop that supplied the last one is stumped. Every parts store in the Detroit area only carries the 9in setup where I've always used the 10.4 When a 10.4 setup is brought out, its for a FLAT surface flywheel. Bolt patterns are the same, but pressure plate doesn't compinsate for the raised contact platform. If the flat surface is all I can get from here on out, what flywheel am I looking for? Car make, model, engine???? Had the parts store run a check on a Buick regal 85 and it showed the 10.4 clutch with part #'s for the flat flywheel. Ok order me this flywheel....like my Sunbird NOTHING available. I've spoken with 6 shops coast to coast today and everyones scratchin their heads. Even Jegs N Summit have nothing. I can't be the only one in this mess.
Image
"LIFE IS NOT A JOURNEY TO THE GRAVE WITH THE INTENTION OF ARRIVING SAFELY IN A PRETTY AND WELL PRESERVED BODY, BUT RATHER TO SKID IN BROADSIDE, THOROUGHLY USED UP, TOTALLY WORN OUT, AND LOUDLY SCREAMING, WOW! WHAT A RIDE!!!"
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Re: 80 231 Buick V6 flywheel prob

Postby stage169 » Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:46 am

Hope you find what you need soon! I just took apart a 77 even fire manual so maybe this evening when I get home from work I can look for part numbers.

Found this from Popular Hot Rodding -
Flywheel/Clutch
Since the T-Types came with automatic transmissions,the flexplate needs to be replaced with a flywheel. The non-turbo 3.8L V-6 came with a manual transmission in other cars, so the replacement parts are out there. McLeod carries the required '77-87 even-fire 160-tooth flywheel in steel and aluminum. These part numbers are 467100-6A, and 567100-6A, respectively. The clutch part numbers depend on what transmission you end up using, but put in a call to McLeod, and you'll have some part numbers to work with.

Read more: http://www.popularhotrodding.com/editor ... z34bYq7fek

Found a pic of the raised flywheel. I can't remember but I might have the flat one. I'll post a pic later this evening.
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Re: 80 231 Buick V6 flywheel prob

Postby stage169 » Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:22 pm

The flywheel I have is flat so no hope there. PP didn't have numbers anyway.

Here are some stock part numbers from my Buick parts book it might help.

PLATE, Engine clutch driven is the clutch/disk. Looks like part # 14014414 should be it.

COVER-COVER & PLATE, Engine Clutch is the pressure plate. Looks like part # 458630 should be it.

Maybe with these stock part numbers they will have something to reference? Best I've got, sorry :?
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Re: 80 231 Buick V6 flywheel prob

Postby Justa 6 » Sat Jun 14, 2014 8:36 pm

Stage, thankz for the help. The pic is my raised flywheel. There is nothing wrong with mine. I can't find the correct pressure plate anymore and been hittin every source for the last week. (suppose to be at a show today) From multiple parts store's the same part# is comming up. Looks identical to the one I pulled out, but the pressure plate surface is the same height as the base (boltholes) Making it for a flat surface flywheel. I can find this everywhere. Multipule shops searched Jegs, Summit and other sources with no luck. What I need to know is, what FLAT flywheel options are out there. Figure this out now and avoid parts problems down the road? Keep the same tooth # and bolt pattern to the flywheel. The way I understand it odd fire V6 (flat can't be used on even fires, BALANCE issues) I have a 78 even fire flat, but its the dinky 9in disk. The part # that keeps comming up, also fits a 70 Chevelle! Can even fire 6's use the V-8 flywheel? and still retain the grip of the 10.4 clutch? This car will stay with me til they pry the keys from my cold dead hands. It's my 1st new car, N older than my "other" kids. LOL My last option is to find a shop to rebuild the pressure plate and just buy a new disk.
"LIFE IS NOT A JOURNEY TO THE GRAVE WITH THE INTENTION OF ARRIVING SAFELY IN A PRETTY AND WELL PRESERVED BODY, BUT RATHER TO SKID IN BROADSIDE, THOROUGHLY USED UP, TOTALLY WORN OUT, AND LOUDLY SCREAMING, WOW! WHAT A RIDE!!!"
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Re: 80 231 Buick V6 flywheel prob

Postby stage169 » Sat Jun 14, 2014 9:49 pm

I snagged that pic from another forum where that guy was having the same problem. I looked mine over and it has a big number on the back very similar to the flywheel numbers above (1253211 has a - 1 too). Doesn't come up on GM wiki parts but I'm thinking maybe your flywheel part number is on the back? If there is a number we stand a chance of finding the application and the correct pressure plate.

On ebay
This is a GM Flywheel for a 3.8 V6 Monza Skyhawk Sunbird Starfire and may fit the 3.8 in Jeep CJ5... Part number on the back is 1263279-1... Clutch surface looks great, no grooves and teeth on the ring gear look great no missing spots..


This guys says his is for an odd fire? The part number is big on his and mine so I bet you can see yours even while it is still attached to the crank. Might need a mirror.

Another quote -
they are not odd fire only and not weighted for engine balance. its tooth count, overall weight, and clutch size that can be different. all 225 231 300 340 and 350 flywheels are interchangeable. be sure you use long enough bolts to go into the crank, if your clutch holes are blind ( not drilled and taped clear through) be sure you have the right size bolts.

http://www.earlycj5.net/forums/showthre ... 6-flywheel


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Buick-V6-238-22 ... 61&vxp=mtr
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Re: 80 231 Buick V6 flywheel prob

Postby Monzamaddogger » Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:40 pm

I purchased a 10.4" Centerforce pp and disc for use with the stepped flywheel years ago and never used it. I'd be interested in selling them if you wanted them...
-Adam

'75 Skyhawk (project)
'80 Monza Spyder (driver)
'76 Sunbird (14,000 original miles)
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Re: 80 231 Buick V6 flywheel prob

Postby cjbiagi » Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:40 am

If the Centerforce pressure plate has the weights on the fingers it will not work with a H body clutch fork.
I am not real familiar with the Buick setup but on my Chevy engine I swapped the small 9 1/4" clutch for a larger 10.4" and used a flat flywheel. Is the clutch slipping or is the only issue the adjustment issue? You may need a different length throwout bearing. Are you using the ballstud to adjust the clutch fork clearance and pedal freeplay?
Clyde.........75 Monza 2+2
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Re: 80 231 Buick V6 flywheel prob

Postby Justa 6 » Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:35 pm

There is nothing wrong with my flywheel...CAN'T get a clutch/pressure plate for it anywhere. In fact the centerforce tech was F'in rude as hell.... WE MAKE NOTHING FOR YOU CAR ANYMORE PEROID. I have Clutchmasters here in detroit. They were my only source a couple years ago. They deal in everything from earthmovers to mini bikes. Have them scratchin their heads over this too. Nobody can verify which app to use in a swap for the flat flywheel. My last chance for now is to have both my pressure plates rebuilt to my spec's, disk is not a prob. Usually core is just sent back to remanufacturer. Trying to find out if I can send mine in and get mine back. Will keep you guys updated on what I find. To make things worse...my water heater let go flooding the entire house. Have furniture stacked to the ceiling. Whole house has to be repainted and recarpeted. Whatta mess. Glad my GTO project is on the road.
"LIFE IS NOT A JOURNEY TO THE GRAVE WITH THE INTENTION OF ARRIVING SAFELY IN A PRETTY AND WELL PRESERVED BODY, BUT RATHER TO SKID IN BROADSIDE, THOROUGHLY USED UP, TOTALLY WORN OUT, AND LOUDLY SCREAMING, WOW! WHAT A RIDE!!!"
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Re: 80 231 Buick V6 flywheel prob

Postby stage169 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:31 am

Man that stinks on the water heater. Try to get the part number off the back of the flywheel.

Brian
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Re: 80 231 Buick V6 flywheel prob

Postby Monzamaddogger » Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:19 pm

You could remove the weights from my centerforce pressure plate (if you think they'll hit the clutch fork) and use your flywheel. When I ordered the pressure plate, it was specifically for an h-body Skyhawk. ... I ended up buying a new flat center force flywheel for my automatic to standard conversion.
-Adam

'75 Skyhawk (project)
'80 Monza Spyder (driver)
'76 Sunbird (14,000 original miles)
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Re: 80 231 Buick V6 flywheel prob

Postby Justa 6 » Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:07 pm

Monzamaddogger wrote:You could remove the weights from my centerforce pressure plate (if you think they'll hit the clutch fork) and use your flywheel. When I ordered the pressure plate, it was specifically for an h-body Skyhawk. ... I ended up buying a new flat center force flywheel for my automatic to standard conversion.


What size clutch does that centerforce use? I have 3 weeks til the Woodward Dream Cruise here. Have not had a chance to mess with the Bird (still spread out all over the floor) Had to pack the garage with furniture from the house. Had to put my GTO into storage. Just brought that back home and blew the rad. Ordered a new 4 core that should be here next week. They deliver my roofing tomorrow and hope to have that stripped and new on by early next week. Workin alone as always. NEVER enough time.
"LIFE IS NOT A JOURNEY TO THE GRAVE WITH THE INTENTION OF ARRIVING SAFELY IN A PRETTY AND WELL PRESERVED BODY, BUT RATHER TO SKID IN BROADSIDE, THOROUGHLY USED UP, TOTALLY WORN OUT, AND LOUDLY SCREAMING, WOW! WHAT A RIDE!!!"
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Re: 80 231 Buick V6 flywheel prob

Postby Monza Harry » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:49 am

Justa 6 wrote:
Monzamaddogger wrote:You could remove the weights from my centerforce pressure plate (if you think they'll hit the clutch fork) and use your flywheel. When I ordered the pressure plate, it was specifically for an h-body Skyhawk. ... I ended up buying a new flat center force flywheel for my automatic to standard conversion.


What size clutch does that centerforce use? I have 3 weeks til the Woodward Dream Cruise here. Have not had a chance to mess with the Bird (still spread out all over the floor) Had to pack the garage with furniture from the house. Had to put my GTO into storage. Just brought that back home and blew the rad. Ordered a new 4 core that should be here next week. They deliver my roofing tomorrow and hope to have that stripped and new on by early next week. Workin alone as always. NEVER enough time.

We Feel your Pain and wish you all the Best with this Mess called :censored: LIFE! Harry
I'm not a hoarder I'm a preservationist 78 Monza Spyder (~Soon(ish +/- I guess) To Be 2+2 with Spoilers)
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Re: 80 231 Buick V6 flywheel prob

Postby Monzamaddogger » Mon Aug 04, 2014 4:32 pm

The Centerforce flywheel I put in was for the 10.4" clutch. I put it on an even fire 231 and was told (or read somewhere) that I would have to match balance the flywheel to my flex plate. When I got it, it was already drilled to balance (light side same as the flex plate) so I just put it on. I haven't started it yet, but the "flat style" clutch and pp seemed to go in and adjust fine.
-Adam

'75 Skyhawk (project)
'80 Monza Spyder (driver)
'76 Sunbird (14,000 original miles)
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Re: 80 231 Buick V6 flywheel prob

Postby Justa 6 » Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:24 am

Image

For the step up flywheel prob's...These are the ONLY guys out there that can help you. Hope to have my Bird on the road tonight.
"LIFE IS NOT A JOURNEY TO THE GRAVE WITH THE INTENTION OF ARRIVING SAFELY IN A PRETTY AND WELL PRESERVED BODY, BUT RATHER TO SKID IN BROADSIDE, THOROUGHLY USED UP, TOTALLY WORN OUT, AND LOUDLY SCREAMING, WOW! WHAT A RIDE!!!"
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Re: 80 231 Buick V6 flywheel prob

Postby tking66 » Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:34 pm

Are you still working on this flywheel situation? I converted my 231 even fire from an automatic to a T5 and could offer some solutions. I used a Chevy small block 153 tooth flywheel, $75 from Jegs, and a mini starter. I had to machine an adapter block for the starter and custom balance the rotating assembly, so I don't know if that's reasonable for your project. If it is, let me know and I can share all the details that went into the swap. It was painful figuring it out, but now that I have the formula, I'd be happy to share it.

My car is a 24 Hours of Lemons car, so I had to do all of this on the cheap, so a billet flywheel was not in the cards.

One thing I can say did NOT work was match balancing the flywheel to the old flexplate. We tried that and the engine shook like a rock tumbler so we had to get it balanced properly.

I hope it all works out, whatever you do.
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