262 flexplate on a 305 gives 153 tooth to an offset starter?

Moderator: Moderators

262 flexplate on a 305 gives 153 tooth to an offset starter?

Postby erik monza » Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:38 pm

I had a pro build a 305 to me - I got the 305 without the flexplate - He had my old flexplate on my old 262 - he send the old flexplate - I ask a pro to install the flexplate on my new 305 as well as install my new th700R4, so it will all be done right - I find that the old starter do not fit as the bolts in my 305 block is offset - the auto wrecker - find a starter with offset holes and it fits - I shoehorn the hole engine/trans into my Monza fit the exhaust and everything and 3 month later I am ready to start - but cannot start, because the flexplate is 153 tooth and the offset bolt starter fits a 168 tooth flexplate - now I have to change the flexplate with the engine in the car - exactly what I did not want to do - why I spend money on the pro- - - - -
Is there a easy way to fit a offset starter to a 153 tooth flexplate?????

Thanks from Erik
Erik - - - Thanks everybody, I enjoy this community
1974 Vega GT w auto - 1975 Monza 2+2 262 w 4 speed - 1978 Monza Spyder 305 w auto - 1976 Monza 2+2 262 w auto change to 305TPI w 4speed auto (my 4th H body)
User avatar
erik monza
 
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:42 am
Location: Hotel Brinkly - Denmark- Helsingor.-. former Canadian - Calgary - private email: gterik@gmail.com


Re: 262 flexplate on a 305 gives 153 tooth to an offset star

Postby cjbiagi » Tue Jul 14, 2015 3:24 pm

Many blocks are drilled for both patterns, and you are correct that the staggered bolt starter fits a 168 tooth flexplate or flywheel. There are aftermarket starters that will fit either size flexplate (dual bolt patterns) but they all have the straight across pattern from what I have seen. Are you sure your block is not drilled for both patterns? Easiest way might be to drill the the block and thread it assuming you have room to get under there and do it. Otherwise it looks like you need to match the flywheel to the starter and that would involve pulling the trans.
Clyde.........75 Monza 2+2
User avatar
cjbiagi
 
Posts: 8141
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:37 pm
Location: Glenwood, Illinois

1975 Chevrolet Monza

Re: 262 flexplate on a 305 gives 153 tooth to an offset star

Postby CaptainPainn » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:45 pm

The 305 would have come factory with a 153 tooth flexplate. The block should be tapped for both bolt patterns. Just swap the nose cone on the starter for a straight one to match the flex plate. Or if you already have a good starter with straight bolt pattern, that works too...
1976 GMC Sprint (Daily Driver)
1976 Vega hatchback
1977 Vega Kammback (Main Project)
1979 Skyhawk
1985 K10 long bed (Daily Driver)
User avatar
CaptainPainn
 
Posts: 264
Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 11:48 am
Location: Three Rivers Michigan

1977 Chevrolet Vega

Re: 262 flexplate on a 305 gives 153 tooth to an offset star

Postby spencerforhire » Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:17 am

If the 305 was build with a block originally installed in a truck(most had 168 tooth flywheels), it is possible that the 3rd hole for the starter is just not there. Here in North America, it would shame on the "pro" builder who didn't pick up on the missing hole. The machine shop I use noticed the missing hole on my 350 truck block and actually had a fixture they use to locate and drill the hole for the 153 tooth starter. Drilling and tapping a hole in the block while it's in the car is tough but not impossible. Probably easier to swap the flywheel now that you have a starter for each size.
The "fleet"-
77 Vega Estate wagon- project(someday)will have TPI305/T-5, S-10 spindles/axles
72 Vega HB Drag Car -383/'Glide/9"(9.35@146.19)(5.94@117.28 1/8th)
76 Vega GT- 400/4spd/9" retired from active duty(rusty)
03 Silverado 2WD ex.cab (work truck/parts hauler)
04 Silverado 2WD ex.cab (retired)
06 Haulin' 20ft enclosed car transporter
93 Suburban- 350/4L60(retired)
00 Saturn SW2- wife's car
01 Saturn SC2- younger son's project
00 Saturn SL2- daughter's car
98 Saturn SW2- spare
and 3 more Saturn "parts cars"
Note- the very act of listing all of these has made me realize I have some kind of problem.....

Visit http://www.spencerforhire.ca
User avatar
spencerforhire
 
Posts: 2442
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:02 pm
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia

1972 Chevrolet Vega Hatchback

Re: 262 flexplate on a 305 gives 153 tooth to an offset star

Postby erik monza » Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:38 am

1 - I need a offset starter that fits a 153 flexplate or can be build - machined made to fit a 153 tooth flexplate
2 - Is it possible to drill into the block and tap a bolt into that
2 - Do I really have to do what I had 2 different professionals to overlook and pull the trans with the engine in the car- exactly the one job I did not want to do with the engine in the car ??

Thanks from Erik
Attachments
IMG_0490small.JPG
This is why it won´t start
IMG_0490small.JPG (136.82 KiB) Viewed 1256 times
IMG_0489small.JPG
This is the holes in the block
IMG_0489small.JPG (107.39 KiB) Viewed 1256 times
Erik - - - Thanks everybody, I enjoy this community
1974 Vega GT w auto - 1975 Monza 2+2 262 w 4 speed - 1978 Monza Spyder 305 w auto - 1976 Monza 2+2 262 w auto change to 305TPI w 4speed auto (my 4th H body)
User avatar
erik monza
 
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:42 am
Location: Hotel Brinkly - Denmark- Helsingor.-. former Canadian - Calgary - private email: gterik@gmail.com

Re: 262 flexplate on a 305 gives 153 tooth to an offset star

Postby BadBowtie » Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:26 am

I cant find the website I knew before that had the starter pattern template so I will look in the garage. Its a pain but my father and I have drilled and tapped it with everything assembled in the car before, it does help if you have access to a lift. It takes two different drill bit sizes, one for the knurled portion of the bolt and one for the threads. IF you have a spare block with both patterns (or know someone) you could make your own template too. Bolt holes are easy after that. Hardest part is drilling a straight hole directly overhead.

Someone once told me there are mini starters with the staggered pattern that fit a 153 flywheel/flexplate but I was not able to find anything reasonably priced back then.
James

1975 Vega GT 350 sbc, STR10 crossram w/dual 390CFM Holleys, M21 4-speed, Hurst shifter and ford 9"
User avatar
BadBowtie
 
Posts: 809
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:20 am

1975 Chevrolet Vega GT

Re: 262 flexplate on a 305 gives 153 tooth to an offset star

Postby CaptainPainn » Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:40 am

I was certain that all 305's came factory with 153 tooth and both bolt holes. Guess you learn somethin new every day. This is the only 153 tooth staggered starter i could find. http://www.starperformanceproducts.com/ ... R-2103.htm
1976 GMC Sprint (Daily Driver)
1976 Vega hatchback
1977 Vega Kammback (Main Project)
1979 Skyhawk
1985 K10 long bed (Daily Driver)
User avatar
CaptainPainn
 
Posts: 264
Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 11:48 am
Location: Three Rivers Michigan

1977 Chevrolet Vega

Re: 262 flexplate on a 305 gives 153 tooth to an offset star

Postby Smiley » Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:05 am

CaptainPainn wrote:I was certain that all 305's came factory with 153 tooth and both bolt holes. Guess you learn somethin new every day. This is the only 153 tooth staggered starter i could find. http://www.starperformanceproducts.com/ ... R-2103.htm


If 153 tooth and staggered bolt pattern is not a misprint the price would be worth it.
User avatar
Smiley
 
Posts: 747
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:50 am

Re: 262 flexplate on a 305 gives 153 tooth to an offset star

Postby erik monza » Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:28 am

A BIG thanks to - CaptainPainn - , you are a fantastic person U saved my week maybe 2 weeks

Now I have to somehow talk these people into sending this starter to Denmark - I cannot register as a member as I do not live in the US

If this does not work, I hope I can get somebody to receive my money, then buy it and send it to me ??? Maybe I can talk Clyde into it he had send me parts a number of times .

( Item #: 2103 Our Delco Style High Torque Gear Reduction Mini Starter fits Chevy Small Block and Big Block engines with 153 tooth flywheels and a staggered bolt pattern. Manufacturer: Star)

http://www.starperformanceproducts.com/ ... R-2103.htm

Thanks everybody and a big thanks to - CaptainPainn - for saving the 2 weeks

- - - - - - - NOW I SURE HOPE THIS IS NOT A MISPRINT - - - - - -

- - - - - - - 168T starter motor brace: GM P/N 3965588 - - - - - - - would that be an possibility, has anybody ever seen that part

One more questian and maybe a very important one - if a ministarter is smaller in diameter and it is - - I could make a steel pipe it could fit into - and then weld small pipes to the side of it for the bolts, to fit the staggered bolt holes, will this setup bring the stater gear close enough to engage ring gear on the flexplate - how about that -??? i could even use 3 bolt on the oilpan to keep it in place if needed ??

Thanks from Erik
Attachments
Ministartr-holster.png
ministarter fitted inside holster, that has same size as a staggered full size starter
Ministartr-holster.png (15.68 KiB) Viewed 1197 times
Erik - - - Thanks everybody, I enjoy this community
1974 Vega GT w auto - 1975 Monza 2+2 262 w 4 speed - 1978 Monza Spyder 305 w auto - 1976 Monza 2+2 262 w auto change to 305TPI w 4speed auto (my 4th H body)
User avatar
erik monza
 
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:42 am
Location: Hotel Brinkly - Denmark- Helsingor.-. former Canadian - Calgary - private email: gterik@gmail.com

Re: 262 flexplate on a 305 gives 153 tooth to an offset star

Postby erik monza » Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:06 am

Hello

- what happen - did everybody go on holiday - or is everybody waiting for me to make a contraption for this to work ?

Please do not leave Peter and me here helpless and alone in Europa .

Hi from Erik
Erik - - - Thanks everybody, I enjoy this community
1974 Vega GT w auto - 1975 Monza 2+2 262 w 4 speed - 1978 Monza Spyder 305 w auto - 1976 Monza 2+2 262 w auto change to 305TPI w 4speed auto (my 4th H body)
User avatar
erik monza
 
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:42 am
Location: Hotel Brinkly - Denmark- Helsingor.-. former Canadian - Calgary - private email: gterik@gmail.com

Re: 262 flexplate on a 305 gives 153 tooth to an offset star

Postby crawfw » Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:43 am

WOW,
I Guess I should keep the starter off my sunbird I swapped to a mini starter. I didn't realize the staggered bolt starter were mostly for 168 tooth flex/flywheels.
At least keep it for a spare for now. I almost sold it the other day but haven't got back to the guy who was having a similar issue. I told him it shouldn't be that hard to find a staggered starter for 153 tooth flywheel. Apparently I was wrong. lol. I didn't have any trouble finding the mini starter for the car.
crawfw
 
Posts: 324
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:53 am

1979 Pontiac Sunbird Formula

Re: 262 flexplate on a 305 gives 153 tooth to an offset star

Postby erik monza » Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:10 am

Hello Crawfw

So that means that you have actually in your hand, had a starter with staggered bolts, that will fit a 153 flexplate - SO now I know it actually exist in real life.

So that means that you have actually in your hand, had a mini starter with staggered bolts, that will fit a 153 flexplate, I have seen pictures, but was afraid of misspelling, you do not want to receive a part from US that is wrong, and has to go back

Well I already ordered a mini starter, so I hope to built a staggered bolts mounting bracket for it, I will keep you all posted

Thanks from Erik
Erik - - - Thanks everybody, I enjoy this community
1974 Vega GT w auto - 1975 Monza 2+2 262 w 4 speed - 1978 Monza Spyder 305 w auto - 1976 Monza 2+2 262 w auto change to 305TPI w 4speed auto (my 4th H body)
User avatar
erik monza
 
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:42 am
Location: Hotel Brinkly - Denmark- Helsingor.-. former Canadian - Calgary - private email: gterik@gmail.com

Re: 262 flexplate on a 305 gives 153 tooth to an offset star

Postby crawfw » Fri Jul 24, 2015 8:56 am

Yes Erik
They do exist. Lol
I'm pretty sure the link that captain pain posted for the mini starter was the exact one I bought.
crawfw
 
Posts: 324
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:53 am

1979 Pontiac Sunbird Formula

Re: 262 flexplate on a 305 gives 153 tooth to an offset star

Postby bill1978v8 » Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:37 pm

I'm probably too late on this but a 153 is the straight across bolt pattern and the 168 is the staggered pattern. Not all blocks are drilled with both patterns. Most trucks are 168 tooth only. Yes, you can drill the extra bolt for the 153 tooth pattern. Make sure to extend the starter gear and get the correct .030" dimension between the tip of the starter gear and the valley of the tooth on the flywheel. You only need to worry about tapping the hole the correct thread size. The knurled part of the starter bolt does not go in the block but takes up the space between the shank of the bolt and the housing of the starter.You can also swap the tail sections on most starters to switch between the two patterns.
Good luck

Bill
1975 Monza 2+2, 4.3L V8, Auto
User avatar
bill1978v8
 
Posts: 1651
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:44 pm
Location: Ambridge PA

1978 Chevrolet Monza 2+2

Re: 262 flexplate on a 305 gives 153 tooth to an offset star

Postby erik monza » Sat Sep 05, 2015 5:47 am

I am happy that a starter with staggered bolt pattern for 153 tooth flex plate exist, the problem is that the amount of people that knows the different s, and knows the parts, are declining fast and that makes customers like me, reluctant to buy, as the changes to get the wrong part is increasing .

I have now received my mini starter all the way from the US, well that was not hard, now I have to make it work

I was lucky that I could file material of the casting to make room for the offset bolt, and make the additional bracket for it.

Here is some pictures

Thanks to all - hi from Erik
Attachments
IMG_0566-S.JPG
IMG_0566-S.JPG (203.35 KiB) Viewed 1046 times
IMG_0585-S.JPG
IMG_0585-S.JPG (161.53 KiB) Viewed 1046 times
IMG_0594-S.JPG
IMG_0594-S.JPG (223.68 KiB) Viewed 1046 times
IMG_0597-S.JPG
IMG_0597-S.JPG (174.58 KiB) Viewed 1046 times
IMG_0599-S.JPG
IMG_0599-S.JPG (219.4 KiB) Viewed 1046 times
Erik - - - Thanks everybody, I enjoy this community
1974 Vega GT w auto - 1975 Monza 2+2 262 w 4 speed - 1978 Monza Spyder 305 w auto - 1976 Monza 2+2 262 w auto change to 305TPI w 4speed auto (my 4th H body)
User avatar
erik monza
 
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:42 am
Location: Hotel Brinkly - Denmark- Helsingor.-. former Canadian - Calgary - private email: gterik@gmail.com

Next

Return to Transmission and Driveline Tech

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest