1976 skyhawk question.

[budscharpf]

Brian
My dad had said he bought it from Cornforth-Campbell Puyallup Pontiac-Buick-GMC‎ on River Rd. in puyallup. (the web site now calls is Harnish). So yes it was from that dealership. The salesman was always trying to catch my dad on the freeway in his sunbird, but he never could.
I can get those pictures fairly quickly. but the build sheet. (I would actually have to find the car for that)
but I can get VIN if I can find the old registration papers. (I have already looked for once already. so it might take awhile).

Thanks Dick for asking around for me.

[cammerjeff]

Joseph

As has been stated before, don't give up on this site, we do poke fun at times, but there are alot of both knowledgeable and friendly people on this board. I do believe either the service manual had a misprint, or it was interpreted wrong. I think the Indy turbo motors, and the stage II Bush Grand National engines were the only Buick V-6's to see the other side of 7000 rpm and live to talk about it anouther day. I hope you find the pic's and info to prove us doughtier's wrong!!!! I love to be proven wrong, it is one of the only ways my old mind can learn something new!!!!

[fyrftr50]

Definitely want to see pics of the decal package you mention it had. Sounds like a Hawk Accent sort-of or their basic striping. Tough call. Hope you find pics soon.

[hammerdown7]

As strange as this sounds, the T50, which has a first gear ratio of 3.50, combined with a 2.29 R&P, would be running 90mph at 10K rpm with a 24" diameter tire.

Dick

[marco_1978_spyder]

That Hawk, probably wouldnt have had a buildsheet in it. Your was most likely built in Canada or California, and those cars usually didnt get a buildsheet.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed on some paperwork. Thanks for sticking with this.

[bugdewde]

only V6 i can think of spinning that kinda rpm would be indy or formula race motor ,

I agree. 10k+ rpm is a de-stroked Indy, ASA or formula car. I think the old Busch series (formerly Grand National series) ran Buick V6 several years back. I don't know if they ever turned 10k+.

The Stage 2 blocks/heads/intake etc that are available make awesome power for a V6. See 600+ hp here: http://www.turbobuicks.com/forums/buick ... monza.html

1000 hp Twin turbo: http://videos.streetfire.net/video/twin ... 146192.htm

Neat project for old Indy V6 spare parts : http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/special ... 07772.html

[budscharpf]

The dealership always taped the build sheets to the inside of the glove compartment.

plus I found out more about the engine.
-when my dad took the engine apart to replaced the bearings, pistons, rings, and cam. He thought it was strange that the length of the bore stroke and the diameter of the piston were really close to each other in measurement.
-It also had hydraulic lifters that you could adjust at the top end.
-he also swears that the distributer was in the "rear" of the engine. not in front of the engine (he's sure of this).

[72 SS PNL]

The dealership always taped the build sheets to the inside of the glove compartment.

plus I found out more about the engine.
-when my dad took the engine apart to replaced the bearings, pistons, rings, and cam. He thought it was strange that the length of the bore stroke and the diameter of the piston were really close to each other in measurement.
-It also had hydraulic lifters that you could adjust at the top end.
-he also swears that the distributer was in the "rear" of the engine. not in front of the engine (he's sure of this).

build sheets were something hidden at the factory , unless the dealer actually tore the car apart to get them , they would still be hidden away

only thing dealers had easy access to was the window stickers , and copies of it and the order sheets

rear dist woulda been a chevy 6 , not a buick

[fyrftr50]

The most common places for buildsheets in the H-bodies is behind the door panels, under or in the seats or under the carpetting (even under the sound deadener). Other spots do include in the roof, in behind or on top of the glove box, etc. They were put there by the line workers when they were done with the sheets used for building the cars, not the dealerships. Of course not all cars have them in there either, just depended on the mood of the line worker that had the sheets in his hands that day. My '79 did have it nicely taped in behind the driver's side door panel.

All Skyhawk 3.8's had distributors in front, no exceptions, odd or even fire made no difference.

I have to shoot some holes in the story here though, just to set the record straight. I have Buick Domestic and Export Car Reports to verify this information.
- all 32,927 '76 Skyhawks built were installed with LD7 odd-fire Buick 3.8's
- 2.29 rear ends were not available for Skyhawks. 31,433 - 2.56 were installed and 1,494 - 2.93s were installed, equalling total production run of 32,927
- The 4 trannys were installed in '76 Skyhawks - TH350s (11,604), TH200s (8,214), 4-speed Saginaws (6,593) and the weak T50 Borg-Warner 5-speed (6,516) for a total of 32,927

The ONLY thing I can think of in this instance, that makes any sense, and I'm surprised Brian J. hasn't thought of this first, is that apparently, according to some info we have (Domestic and Export Car Reports), there was 1 single, solitary red (72L) 1977 (not '76) Skyhawk built with an L77 engine. 72L Medium Red was used in 1977 on Chevelles, Montes, Caminos, full-sized Chevys and Corvettes. It wasn't on Skyhawks or any H-Bodies until 1980. It also had option Code L32 accociated with it. Both of which (L32 and L77) seem to lead to a 350 V8 engine, unknow which GM model.

Did your Dad's Skyhawk have a Targa Band on it and was it a '77?

[EagleFish]

That description does not fit a 231 Buick V6 - odd or even fire. sounds like a Chevy V6 with that type of distributor mounting and those numbers.
Even then, that is a bit of a streatch.
But, nowhere, I have I ever seen anything documented that a "stock from the factory" Buick V6 ever turned those kinds of numbers.
Especially back in those fuel deprived, octane deprived days of the '70s.

The other engine that GM made that could turn high rpms in stock form was the Cosworth-Vega.
The tach showed a redline of 6,500, but it spun productively to 7,000 rpm before power leveled off.
As I understood it, when I was a regional director with the CVOA,
GM set the redline 500 rpm below its peak for warranty purposes.
Now, what constitute stock form.
GM had available two optional cams that would take the CV engine up near the 10,000 rpm mark.

Similarly, the Z/28 302 could be hopped up (stock) with a solid lifter cam and short cross-ram 2x4 aluminum intack over the Chevy parts counter.
That certainly increased the redline.

I gotta be like Richard on this one and be from Missouri.


John (John and Richard)

[hammerdown7]

I know a couple of people that have a number of contacts and information about GM. I'll see what they have to say.

Dick

Both of the people I contacted, one still working at GM and one with a major engine builder, well, here's a quote from one of them, "Can't say that I ever heard of any production engine from GM reving to 10,000 RPM."

So any info you can come up with hopefully will shed some light on this.

Dick

[monza75tc]

Here is another possibility, Maybe the engine was swapped out, and the tach not matched to the new engine, hence a false reading on the tach. Just a possibility

Dick

[stage169]

Brian
My dad had said he bought it from Cornforth-Campbell Puyallup Pontiac-Buick-GMC‎ on River Rd. in puyallup. (the web site now calls is Harnish). So yes it was from that dealership. The salesman was always trying to catch my dad on the freeway in his sunbird, but he never could.
I can get those pictures fairly quickly. but the build sheet. (I would actually have to find the car for that)
but I can get VIN if I can find the old registration papers. (I have already looked for once already. so it might take awhile).

Thanks Dick for asking around for me.

Joseph I called Harnish today and was told they do have records all the way back to the beginning of Cornforth Campbell. In fact I got to talk to Dave Campbell and he told me if we can come up with the VIN then he should have some information on the car. Also depending on the VIN number Sloan Museum has records for many of the 1976 Skyhawks. Sounds like the odds are good that there is some factory documentation out there for that Skyhawk (please find that VIN )

As Bryan M. mentioned every 76 Buick Skyhawk made came with a 231ci V6 (that one 350 V8 in 77 I would flip if we ever found that car) But what if the dealer altered (swapped like Dick suggested) it? Even had literature for it? I hope you can find that VIN and we can bring this thing full circle! Keep us posted, Brian

[stage169]

Joseph are you still out there? Any luck? Brian

[marco_1978_spyder]

I got a scenario that fits the description here.

Buick Dealership converts a Buick skyhawk to a small block chevy motor.

That would explain the distributor in the rear.

Being that it was a non-stock conversion dealership deal only that wasn't supposed to be sold as new but it accidentaly was, that would explain that. (lawsuits for different engines in different brands were HOT at that time).
The Buick literature may not have had the disclaimer "This model may feature GM engines produced by various divisions within GM" Even if it did...the Buicks only came with a Buick engine, so GM corporate possibly would have frowned on this car.

The tachometer was not removed and reset (little red clip in the back) so that it always read abnormally high...
that would explain the high revving...

All this would also explain why the car was so fast and a stock sunbird couldnt catch it.(thats not really saying much)

As for the service manual information.....was this a service manual supplement?
There's no way a separate manual would have been printed for an expirimental engine that existed in 1 car.

Maybe they gave you the v8 monza service manual to go with the car for servicing issues?

This is a tad more likely than a buick v6 motor with a cam profile that could make useable power in that wide of an rpm range. Or any motor with a single cam and 2 valves per cyl.

My other 2 Hypothesis include:
1. a Modified Cosworth Vega engine was swapped in.
2. even more unlikley...One of the prototype Wankle powerplants made it into this car. But hat could explain the outrageous rpm's and special service manual supplement.